Crosscut Saw Thread

olybears57 said:
....I have no idea what the top lettering spells.
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Skiv said:
Either "Occident" or "Occidental."


Trivia for today: Old word for "Western."

Boreal: Northern
Oriental: Eastern
Austral: Southern
Occidental: Western
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'Occidental' was a Seattle hardware brand. I've seen it on several of their tools. As for who made their saws - I don't know. WAG? Maybe Simonds?
 
Found this pic of the biggest crosscut I've ever seen.

nationalgeographic-603279_83173_600x450.jpg


http://images.nationalgeographic.co...e/nationalgeographic-603279_83173_600x450.jpg

Looks like those boys have been busy with their axes, too.
 
Let me ask this: When I see a cc log saw with a broken tooth, unless it was deliberate vandalism, how would that normally happen? I have read this whole thread, and I know that a saw with lots of use and many tuneups over many years would have the teeth pitch angled over and over (in the same direction I'm sure) to create a wider kerf, but would that ever cause a tooth to snap off? I assume after a long time of rebending outwards, and use causing it to eventually come back in line, then rebending again and again, that would weaken the steel eventually? And if that does NOT cause it to snap, then what WOULD cause it (short of vandalism)? Thanks.
 
Square_peg said:
'Occidental' was a Seattle hardware brand. I've seen it on several of their tools. As for who made their saws - I don't know. WAG? Maybe Simonds?
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Any connection to Occidental leather? Makers of qualty tool belts ect. I have used them for years.
 
Reminds me of this tree, plus once felled they tended to shatter, becoming toothpics
mCn7rZ7.jpg
 
Old Virginia Joe said:
When I see a cc log saw with a broken tooth, unless it was deliberate vandalism, how would that normally happen?
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Your guess is correct. The setting process is most likely responsible. The 'set' in a tooth can be adjusted either by wrenching or peening. Wrenching is most likely the cause. I've seen some Forest Service saws out on trail crew where they had intentionally heat tempered the base of the teeth for exactly this reason.

Missing one tooth won't make much difference in the performance of a saw.
 
garry3 said:
I have often wondered how that would work with the big timber, seems that the gullets would clog up pretty quick.
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The general rule is that a saw must be twice as long as the diameter of the tree. This way all the gullets can clear the cut toward one side or the other at maximum pull. Single buck saws (one man saws) can be shorter since there's no handle on the far end and it can be pulled further out of the cut.

For an exceptionally wide tree you might have to saw one corner and axe off the wedge, saw off the other corner and axe off the wedge, then saw the center. In the photo above the saw looks a little short for that tree. But it's probably already beyond the length of practicality. The stroke would be longer than a man could make without moving his feet.

That's a bigass tree! And look at the size of the chips on the ground. Those old boys knew how to use an axe.
 
garry3 said:
Any connection to Occidental leather? Makers of quality tool belts ect. I have used them for years.
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Probably unrelated. That's a California company. Seattle Hardware was one of the many companies that grew up in Seattle during the Alaskan gold rush. They persisted at least into the late 1960's. I haven't been able to find out exactly when they finally closed up shop. It's not uncommon to find their tools around here. I have one of their picks and an old catalog. I wish I knew more about them.
 
Square_peg said:
The general rule is that a saw must be twice as long as the diameter of the tree. This way all the gullets can clear the cut toward one side or the other at maximum pull. Single buck saws (one man saws) can be shorter since there's no handle on the far end and it can be pulled further out of the cut.

For an exceptionally wide tree you might have to saw one corner and axe off the wedge, saw off the other corner and axe off the wedge, then saw the center. In the photo above the saw looks a little short for that tree. But it's probably already beyond the length of practicality. The stroke would be longer than a man could make without moving his feet.

That's a bigass tree! And look at the size of the chips on the ground. Those old boys knew how to use an axe.
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That would make sense with the three cuts. The picture seems to confirm that. It looks like there are two saw marks at the top of that notch. Must have used a crosscut like a pit saw some how. Seems to indicate the notch wasn't all axe work.
 
Those two vertical marks are the handles of their felling axes, stuck in the trunk after finishing their face cut. Saw was for the under cut, the face cut was all axe.
 
A fun video showing how some of it was done.

[video=youtube;qb_YNZn_kaQ]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qb_YNZn_kaQ[/video]
 
Square_peg said:
Your guess is correct. The setting process is most likely responsible. The 'set' in a tooth can be adjusted either by wrenching or peening. Wrenching is most likely the cause. I've seen some Forest Service saws out on trail crew where they had intentionally heat tempered the base of the teeth for exactly this reason.

Missing one tooth won't make much difference in the performance of a saw.
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So, am I hearing you say if you want to protect your saw as much as possible, hammer, not wrench your teeth to set them? IOW, wrenching is a bad idea given the hammer option?
 
Yes, I think peening is the better way to set the teeth of your crosscut. Not only because it's less risky, peening keeps the saw thinner in the teeth and causes less drag. Wrenching leaves more of the tooth in contact with the kerf.
 
Tooth breakage is also a function of tempering. I've found Disstons to be easier to hammer set than Atkins or Simonds saws. Heavy western bucking saws were crescent ground and have very thick steel on the tooth end which makes for difficult hammer setting. Same holds true for swaging the rakers. Modern saws like the much maligned Curtis/Jemco have soft steel which peens easily.

Long before I do any setting though, I'll have jointed and filed on each tooth and raker to establish proper profiles. During this process I watch how the file cuts the steel. If the file skates off the saw tooth and leaves a streak on my file, that's an easy indication of hard and more brittle steel. Before going any further with the process, I'll heat each tooth and raker to draw out some of the temper.
 
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