Crosscut saws should do most of the cutting on the pull. If cutting is done on the push and the blade gets caught in the kerf, you can kink the blade. They are typically bi-directional but the hazard to kink the blade comes with the push. Cut in both directions but keep that in mind or you may be pounding out a kink.
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Crosscut Saw Thread
- Thread starter G-pig
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Square_peg
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I got some crosscut time in last week. I was doing trail work in an area where we had a fire a couple years ago. The trees are coming down in droves. It reminded us of the Mt. St. Helens blowdown. We hiked in and set up camp. The work was on a ridge 900' above camp. So first thing every morning started with a little hike. We spent 4 days and 3 nights out there.
There are hundreds of trees across the trail. And because it's a wilderness area there are no combustion engines (chainsaws) allowed. It's all being bucked by hand with crosscut saws.
Sometimes we had to dig them out to make space for our saws. It often took multiple cuts to clear a tree from the trail.
One big Doug Fir fell so it crossed the switchback trail 3 times. Plus its root ball fell on the trail. We had to buck that one 7 times to clear it.
[video]http://cedarriverforge.com/Photo-index/Duckabush/Bucking1.mp4[/video]
This one went perfectly. I happened to be pulling the saw when it finished but the whole 4-man crew cut it and set up the rails to clear it from the trail.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/okznege3neaj9rn/P4121925.MOV?dl=0&hc_location=ufi
And just to make this post legit on the axe forum here's a pic of the axe I brought along, a 2-1/4 pound Craftsman boys axe.
There are hundreds of trees across the trail. And because it's a wilderness area there are no combustion engines (chainsaws) allowed. It's all being bucked by hand with crosscut saws.
Sometimes we had to dig them out to make space for our saws. It often took multiple cuts to clear a tree from the trail.
One big Doug Fir fell so it crossed the switchback trail 3 times. Plus its root ball fell on the trail. We had to buck that one 7 times to clear it.
[video]http://cedarriverforge.com/Photo-index/Duckabush/Bucking1.mp4[/video]
This one went perfectly. I happened to be pulling the saw when it finished but the whole 4-man crew cut it and set up the rails to clear it from the trail.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/okznege3neaj9rn/P4121925.MOV?dl=0&hc_location=ufi
And just to make this post legit on the axe forum here's a pic of the axe I brought along, a 2-1/4 pound Craftsman boys axe.
Square_peg
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Yours, truly.
David Martin
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You men gave those crosscut saws a good workout that week. Good job. DM
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Awesome Square_peg. I thoroughly enjoy your posts/pictures of getting it done - Trail maintenance/hewing/etc. Your gear is making saw dust, mine is is gathering dust (the boring kind).
I've got a pretty worn one man saw showing up soon. I'll need a damage/wear assessment and this is probably the best place for such things.
Thanks for sharing your mission photos!
I've got a pretty worn one man saw showing up soon. I'll need a damage/wear assessment and this is probably the best place for such things.
Thanks for sharing your mission photos!
Square_peg
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Post a pic when you get it. I've found that 42" to 54" one man saws are the most useful.
Here's a pic of the underbucking tool at use. Very useful tool for logs suspended across the trail. A suspended log will quickly bind the saw if you cut from the top. But if you cut from the bottom the kerf opens up. This tool makes cutting from the bottom easier.
Link showing how to make an underbucking tool.
http://www.fs.fed.us/t-d/pubs/htmlpubs/htm02232330/
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Square_Peg, I just saw your post and all your pictures. It is simply great. What a fantastic experience. Thanks for sharing it with all of us.
Tom
Tom
Square_peg
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Good eye, Trailtime.
Ended up not using the Griphoist on this trip. Never got to pulling that root ball. But there's another crew going in next week to pick up where we left off.
Ended up not using the Griphoist on this trip. Never got to pulling that root ball. But there's another crew going in next week to pick up where we left off.
The last root ball I went after was a long hike in. I carried a Maasdam rope puller and multiple lightweight blocks to overcome both end bind and limit the weight of gear. Though not as powerful as a Griphoist, the Maasdam can pull some serious tension with blocks in the line.
I made a short video of the project for my trail club that incorporated the original tipoff and location of the obstruction by another group of hikers. About halfway in we get to cutting and winching.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zq0wU7b8T0I
Have you ever used wedges to lift a tree off the ground instead of digging under it? If the BD's not too big you can stack and pound wedges from both sides of the tree and it will lift the whole tree off the ground, leaving you airspace to saw, especially if you start a kerf and wedge in above it. The log will want to lift naturally from the top wedging and will be assisted from the bottom by the under wedging. Of course it helps to have a big crew and lots of wedges on hand to make this work.
I made a short video of the project for my trail club that incorporated the original tipoff and location of the obstruction by another group of hikers. About halfway in we get to cutting and winching.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zq0wU7b8T0I
Have you ever used wedges to lift a tree off the ground instead of digging under it? If the BD's not too big you can stack and pound wedges from both sides of the tree and it will lift the whole tree off the ground, leaving you airspace to saw, especially if you start a kerf and wedge in above it. The log will want to lift naturally from the top wedging and will be assisted from the bottom by the under wedging. Of course it helps to have a big crew and lots of wedges on hand to make this work.
Square_peg
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Great video, Trailtime. I've been eyeing those Maasdam pullers. They are quite a bit cheaper than a Griphoist as I'm sure you're aware.
Even with the Griphoist we often set blocks to increase or redirect the force. Using them with a Maasdam makes good sense.
In wedging a tree off the ground are you using ordinary felling wedges? Keeping a tall stack of those in order on the loose forest floor duff seems problematic to me. How exactly are you doing it? Got photos? I'm always looking to add new things to my bag o'tricks.
Even with the Griphoist we often set blocks to increase or redirect the force. Using them with a Maasdam makes good sense.
In wedging a tree off the ground are you using ordinary felling wedges? Keeping a tall stack of those in order on the loose forest floor duff seems problematic to me. How exactly are you doing it? Got photos? I'm always looking to add new things to my bag o'tricks.
Not the best example, as the tree was only about 18" diameter, but I just had an axe along and didn't want to chop into the dirt. In this case, I wedged in from one side and got it high enough to finish the cut. If I had enough big wedges, I could've gone in from both sides and kept adding wedges to lift it higher. Had I sawed in from the top, the kerf would create a hinge spot making it easier to lift since I'd be wedging up the weak spot and not the whole tree.
In your case, deep soft duff creates a compression problem unlike the rocky soils of the Blue Ridge. Note that I pounded a hardwood branch under the log to give the wedges a more solid footing.
http://i1171.photobucket.com/albums/r557/ATsawyer/0208151230-01_zpseoa5f5wh.jpg[/IMG]
In your case, deep soft duff creates a compression problem unlike the rocky soils of the Blue Ridge. Note that I pounded a hardwood branch under the log to give the wedges a more solid footing.
http://i1171.photobucket.com/albums/r557/ATsawyer/0208151230-01_zpseoa5f5wh.jpg[/IMG]
Square_peg
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OK. I see what you mean. Yeah, we'd have to put something under the wedges here but that would work.
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I grew up with saws around but my grandfather was the one that sharpened them. Personally, I don't have a lot of technical experience with man saws other than running them in my youth while my father explained, "Character Building" lol.
This is the one that I've ended up with recently. The handle is solid and the hardware doesn't look like it was molested too much (relatively clean screws), it is straight without dents, and it's nice and rusty.... I mean it seems to have a nice patina. Blade is 48" - 53" overall. Handle holes in the blade are all intact without obvious use or the handles were sized right/tightened if used. Maybe a little worm activity at one time?
Since we have some experts here, I was hoping to find out some basic information on this one or on them in general.
1. The tooth pattern is... champion? Is this a really worn saw or is it close to what it should be?
2. By outward appearances, does it look usable?
3. Does it look like someone did a hasty or inexperienced sharpening job on it? There are some pretty sharp "points" in the drops next to the rakers and it looks like that between almost all of them. Might be the tooth pattern but I don't know them well-enough yet.
3. What do you do to clean the blade up/remove rust?
4. Given the tooth pattern, what would I be cutting with this old gal?
It certainly doesn't look like some of the beauties I see on here so I'm kind of looking at this one as a "get to know ya" saw for the experience. Really want to learn to properly set and sharpen them so I am not super concerned about the $26 I have into it so far.
Don't have a saw vice or setting tool yet - some advice on those would be great as well. If anyone has a helper handle they just don't know what to do with...
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Use all the saw-specific jargon you need to.
There is a place nearby that has racks of used, one and two-man blades so if this ends up being a dog, what I learn from this one will just refine what I am looking for.
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[video=youtube;FrYsFlx3OSY]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FrYsFlx3OSY[/video]
Good place for info: http://www.crosscutsawyer.com/index.php
You've got some work ahead of you.
Good place for info: http://www.crosscutsawyer.com/index.php
You've got some work ahead of you.
The steel looks pretty clean but the saw has been "lazy filed". That's my term for filers who don't lower the gullets and let the teeth and rakers get squatty. You could bring it back to life with a couple 1/4" round files to deepen the gullets and a combination jointer/raker gauge to true it up. You're looking at at least a full weekend's work to re-profile the saw teeth back to their original shape and then you can begin the actual pointing and setting. Got some time on your hands?