Crucible CPM S35VN

[Larrin]

If it has less wear resistance than S30V them I'm disappointed. Although, let's see, may be that 0.5% Nb can do some magic...

There are plenty of high wear resistance stainless steels. The last thing I would be is disappointed.

 

[J. Rosa]

There are plenty of high wear resistance stainless steels. The last thing I would be is disappointed.

True, I was interested in the increased toughness.

 

[John Frankl]

What is the rationale behind leaving the metal protruding beyond the scales?

 

[Gator97]

There are plenty of high wear resistance stainless steels. The last thing I would be is disappointed.

Well, disappointed as in I was expecting it to be something else.

Other than that there's a lot more tough steels

 

[Franco G]

Thanks to RJ and cotdt,

RJ, How hard are you making it? And what do you think about the 59RC of Spyderco?

cotdt, Yes, please share your findings with the higher hardness.

Spyderco S30VN hardness is Rc 59/60 according to Sal.

Franco

 

[Larrin]

Well, disappointed as in I was expecting it to be something else.

Other than that there's a lot more tough steels

None that have the combination of toughness and wear resistance that S35VN offers.

 

[Reeek]

Does "easier to finish" mean easier to scratch?

 

[bigmark408]

Sure does look purty and is very sharp...thats as far as i got.

OK, i will share some of what i know about this steel with my friends here.

Shortly after Crucible introduced S30V Chris Reeve ever thinking of how to improve, was making suggestions to Crucible. Now, with the addition of 0.5% Niobium to the already exellent S30V, S35VN takes a small step forward.

For the knife user, S35VN brings a more refined grain structure wich translates to about 10-15% more toughness. In practical terms, this means better edge retention and shock absorbency. It also brings a slight improvement in corrosion resistance.

For the manufacturer, that small percetnage of Niobium makes S35VN a little less difficult to machine and grind,and slightly easier to polish.

Hope this helps guys. :thumbup:

 

[The Mastiff]

So they lowered the carbide percentage and amount of vanadium, and lowered the wear resistance at the same time. .5% Niobium won't make up for that lower carbon and missing 1% Vanadium.

It's done more for the producers of knives than the end users then, correct? 10-15% more toughness in a folder and easier to finish means nothing to me as a user. I wouldn't use a high carbide stainless in a hard use fixed blade, and if I did the 10-15% toughness improvement would be negligible anyway. The savings in finish work time won't affect the bottom line much to the end user anyways, as most producers only use basic, low grit finishes anyway with S30V.

If it was 5% Niobium, it might seem like an improvement to me.

 

[Gator97]

None that have the combination of toughness and wear resistance that S35VN offers.

That is really interesting coming from you.
So, do you think it could be replacement or even improvement over for CPM 3V?

 

[bigmark408]

So they lowered the carbide percentage and amount of vanadium, and lowered the wear resistance at the same time. .5% Niobium won't make up for that lower carbon and missing 1% Vanadium.

It's done more for the producers of knives than the end users then, correct? 10-15% more toughness in a folder and easier to finish means nothing to me as a user. I wouldn't use a high carbide stainless in a hard use fixed blade, and if I did the 10-15% toughness improvement would be negligible anyway. The savings in finish work time won't affect the bottom line much to the end user anyways, as most producers only use basic, low grit finishes anyway with S30V.

If it was 5% Niobium, it might seem like an improvement to me.

Please post the link to your site...sounds like you make some great knives and i for one would like to see them.

 

[Gator97]

If it was 5% Niobium, it might seem like an improvement to me.

Yeah, that's what i was hoping for

 

[cotdt]

What is the rationale behind leaving the metal protruding beyond the scales?

I think it's mostly done for cosmetics, though it does protect the handle material. You can use the end as a baton.

Spyderco S35VN hardness is Rc 59/60 according to Sal.

Franco

Yeah it's heat treated for toughness. I just batoned my Mule S35VN through a penny w/o edge damage.

Does "easier to finish" mean easier to scratch?

It takes a higher polish more easily than S30V. Though I didn't find it all that hard to mirror polish S30V using diamond abrasives.

Yeah, that's what i was hoping for

There's always RN15X

One thing I expect S35VN to do is be able to perform better with thin edges than S30V because of its finer carbides and higher toughness. You can also have thinner blades and less metal in the blade cross-section. I made some thin 1.2mm thick pairing knives with S30V at ~63 rc and I expect S35VN to suit this task even better.

 

[bearcut]

So, do you think it could be replacement or even improvement over for CPM S3V?

Do you mean CPM 3V? S would be stainless, no?

 

[RJ Martin]

I hit Rc60/61, just like I do with S30V. The VN is tougher, according to Scott. What this means to me is that the edge will be less likely to chip under adverse conditions. You need to remember that toughness and edge retention are almost always inversely related, for steels made by the same process-In this case, the CPM process.

I have always considered toughness as secondary to edge retention, because you can compensate for reduced toughness by geometry (blade thickness, edge thickness, edge geometry) and I have never gotten a folder back with a broken blade.

If you are looking for the most wear resistant CPM stainless, S110V is the winner, hands down and by a large margin. It's expensive and you may want to shoot yourself when you try finishing it.

Another thing to consider is that, compared to the older steels like ATS34 and 440C, when you look at S30V, S35VN, CPM154CM, S110V, etc., it is like comparing a Yogo to a Lamborghini. And, comparing the CPM steels against another is like comparing a Ferrari to a Lamborghini-the differences are mainly esoteric.

Lastly, like I have said many times, it doesn't matter what steel you use if your heat treatment is not optimal

 

[Gator97]

Do you mean CPM 3V? S would be stainless, no?

Thanks for noticing that, fixed. Yeah I meant 3V.

 

[Larrin]

That is really interesting coming from you.
So, do you think it could be replacement or even improvement over for CPM 3V?

It won't be that tough, but it it's definitely tougher than D2, using Crucible's S30V toughness numbers and accounting for an increase.

 

[The Mastiff]

using crucibles toughness numbers wouldn't a 10-15% increase only work out to a 2-3lb difference at most? Less in some cases?

It looks like a great steel to me, but it still looks like the advantages over S30V are mostly geared to help the knife makers, more than the end users.

I've never had edge chipping in S30V except in one knife, a wally world native when they first began carrying them. That was easily resolved with a better edge and higher grit finish.

It's been a non issue for me. I'm fortunate enough to be able to pick and choose the right tool for the job though, which helps. In this case that means steel choice, as well as geometry.

To be honest Ill take CPM M4 over either of the stainless steels for most of my carrying needs.

 

[A.P.F.]

...To be honest Ill take CPM M4 over either of the stainless steels for most of my carrying needs.

I'll second that. CPM-M4 is an amazing steel. :thumbup:

 

[Larrin]

using crucibles toughness numbers wouldn't a 10-15% increase only work out to a 2-3lb difference at most? Less in some cases?

It looks like a great steel to me, but it still looks like the advantages over S30V are mostly geared to help the knife makers, more than the end users.

I've never had edge chipping in S30V except in one knife, a wally world native when they first began carrying them. That was easily resolved with a better edge and higher grit finish.

It's been a non issue for me. I'm fortunate enough to be able to pick and choose the right tool for the job though, which helps. In this case that means steel choice, as well as geometry.

To be honest Ill take CPM M4 over either of the stainless steels for most of my carrying needs.

S30V was very close to the toughness of D2 in the first place.

CPM-M4 is great. Hopefully this S35VN comes closer to its performance. Micrographs and carbide volume numbers would at least help with the mystery.

The thing I would be most excited about with S35VN would be a potential increase in edge stability.