Crucible CPM S35VN

[The Mastiff]

Larrin, a good performing, wear resistant stainless steel with very good edge stability is a dream come true in a knife to me. The knife industry has come a really long way since my days as a kid, mostly in the last 7 to 10 years.

To me, one of the biggest problems with S30V was most factory knives were not getting all they could out of it with RC's in the 58-59 range, coupled with belt sanded grind finishes at sometimes 240 grit or so.

I believe that's where some of the "problems" came from with S30V. It's a whole different animal in a nice custom.

They can tweak it all they want in S35VN, but it will be wasted if it gets used at low hardnesses and not up to it's potential.

I can see wanting improvements to S30V from a knifemakers time/supplies perspective. Even then it doesn't take a finish like even ATS 34.

We'll see how it goes, and if we see more. With 3% vanadium still it can't be all that bad wear resistance wise, can it?

Thanks for your input as usual Larrin. Your knowledge is very much valued. Joe/Raleigh

 

[MiG Angel]

Never been too impressed with S30V. The wear resistance is good but the toughness is too low and I hate sharpening out the chips out of a thick chunk of Bos treated S30V.

Are the crucible comparison graphs an accurate way to measure toughness and wear resistance?

I'm looking forward to trying out the S110V but I'll be even happier if it has much better toughness than S30V but like RJ said, you trade off wear resistance for toughness.

 

[cotdt]

S35VN is not "much more tough" than S30V but I do notice it holds up better at thinner angles than S30V. Wear resistance is about the same as S30V. I don't think anyone can notice the difference. It does seem more corrosion resistant by a touch.

There's another niobium steel called Niolox that is really, really tough, is stainless and has wear resistance comparable to D2 at the same hardness.

 

[TyFrameLock]

You know fella, darn near everything is toxic in the right form or concentration. That even applies to straight iron.

Not to bring a thread back from the dead....

But!

Pretty much anything that you put your hands on today, will in some form, cause cancer according to California....lol

We all need to live in bubbles and breathe pure oxygen...

F!

 

[winbag338]

California has just released a study citing california as a known cause of cancer.

 

[tsdevanna]

The goal was to improve the toughness of CPMS30V. Lab tests indicate 10-15% improvement with as good or better corrosion resistance and better edge holding. Machinability and finishability also improved.

As RJ has already stated, none of these steels are any good without proper HT !

 

[cotdt]

The goal was to improve the toughness of CPMS30V. Lab tests indicate 10-15% improvement with as good or better corrosion resistance and better edge holding. Machinability and finishability also improved.

As RJ has already stated, none of these steels are any good without proper HT !

Better edge holding than S30V too? Good to know! In my use so far S35VN is definitely on par with S30V in edge holding. It's got less vanadium though which is confusing.

 

[JNewell]

Bringing this thread back with the results of tests on an S35VN MT-06 Spyderco Mule in this thread:

Average of 6 readings was 58.0 HRC, with a high and low of 58.6 and 57.7.

For comparison, the CRK website says they run the same steel in the new Nyala at 58-50 RC, which in the real world probably means production averages would come out close to the same.

 

[black mamba]

I'm a little confused by this relatively low hardness (for a "super steel"). D2 is usually run at 60-61, and is pretty corrosion resistant with 11+% chromium.

Between these two steels, S35VN @ 58 and D2 @ 60, if your criteria were, in order of importance, edge holding, toughness, corrosion resistance, which would you choose? Anyone with experience using both, please chime in.

 

[jmsodpc]

I should be getting a knife with this steel later this week. Can't wait.

 

[Ankerson]

I'm a little confused by this relatively low hardness (for a "super steel"). D2 is usually run at 60-61, and is pretty corrosion resistant with 11+% chromium.

Between these two steels, S35VN @ 58 and D2 @ 60, if your criteria were, in order of importance, edge holding, toughness, corrosion resistance, which would you choose? Anyone with experience using both, please chime in.

58-59 RC is a range and there aren't many knives out there yet so that range could change to the 59-60 RC as more makers start to use it.

Edge Retention is pretty much the same for S30V and S35VN run at the same hardness, close enough most people wouldn't be able to tell the difference if the blade weren't marked.

I would take S35VN or S30V over D2.

 

[A.P.F.]

Not to bring a thread back from the dead....

But!

Pretty much anything that you put your hands on today, will in some form, cause cancer according to California....lol

We all need to live in bubbles and breathe pure oxygen...

F!

Ummm...I hate to burst your bubble, but pure oxygen is toxic to humans.

 

[RandomAyes]

There are so many toxic materials used in knifemaking. Vanadium is just another one. Take proper safety precautions and everything will be fine.

Iron and chromium are toxic at a certain concentration. Aluminum oxide, cubic boron nitride, diamond dust = all bad 4 U. The fumes from epoxied synthetics (micarta, G10, FRN) can be harmful.

So don't eat your vanadium steel, don't keep it in direct contact with your spleen, and you'll be all right.

 

[MiG Angel]

All this, "you won't notice any difference" is a bit of a turn off.

I'm not a knife maker or producer but I do enjoy using and sharpening my knives. Why should I even bother with S35VN if it is only an indiscernible step above S30V, an alloy I've never liked?

 

[Noctis3880]

All this, "you won't notice any difference" is a bit of a turn off.

I'm not a knife maker or producer but I do enjoy using and sharpening my knives. Why should I even bother with S35VN if it is only an indiscernible step above S30V, an alloy I've never liked?

I'm a bit foggy on this issue myself. But from what I've been told, the steel is 20% tougher than S30V and slightly easier to sharpen. The only way it would be appealing is in a bigger fixed blade(think ZT 0100) or if custom heat treated to Rc 60-61.

But if you didn't like S30V, you won't find this one appealing. While I was interested in the steel and was hoping to get an Umnumzaan in the steel, I decided to shoot for the S30V version anyway due to the lack of discernible differences, and the fact that I've never chipped S30V before.

 

[Ankerson]

All this, "you won't notice any difference" is a bit of a turn off.

I'm not a knife maker or producer but I do enjoy using and sharpening my knives. Why should I even bother with S35VN if it is only an indiscernible step above S30V, an alloy I've never liked?

It wasn't developed to be an improvement over S30V as far as performance was concerned, it's a lateral replacement for S30V that is easier for the knife makers and Companies to work with and finish. Also supposed to solve the so called chipping issues that S30V had.

Just because it's new doesn't mean it's going to offer an big improvement over S30V performance wise, or even noticeably different for the end users.

http://www.crucible.com/PDFs/DataSheets2010/dsS35VNrev12010.pdf

As far as I have seen Crucible, CRK and the other production makers aren't Hyping it up saying it's anything more than what it is.

 

[mete]

While Cb [Nb] and V form hard , wear resistant carbides ,vanadium carbides tends to collect at the grain boundaries while columbium carbides are more uniformly distributed. That grain boundary difference makes S35VN a bit tougher.
Makers are still going to HT to satisfy the majority of their customers and their uses. I'm using a S35VN Sebenza as EDC but I doubt I'll be able to tell very much difference between S35VN and S30V in normal use.

 

[Ankerson]

While Cb [Nb] and V form hard , wear resistant carbides ,vanadium carbides tends to collect at the grain boundaries while columbium carbides are more uniformly distributed. That grain boundary difference makes S35VN a bit tougher.
Makers are still going to HT to satisfy the majority of their customers and their uses. I'm using a S35VN Sebenza as EDC but I doubt I'll be able to tell very much difference between S35VN and S30V in normal use.

I doubt there would be a noticeable difference in production blades, in customs depending on what they are there could be some differences depending on blade grinds and HT.

But then S30V is very good with a proper HT.....

 

[The Lone Gunmen]

Sorry to bump, But I have an Spartan Blades Ares is S35VN which is an amazing blade, came to me from the makers shaving sharp, I've used it on some cardboard for thrusting and slashing tests and it help up amazingly well, the finish (spartan coat, I think) that Mark and Curtis put on these blades held up well too. I couldnt quite shave arms with it after words but I still couldnt run my finger on the blade with pressure or it would be split wide open, and she came right back to life with a DMT fine diamond rod.
Thought I'd share my experience.

Thanks

 

[thedemonbeast]

Hello,

My brand new high andmade Martin Knives' MCE II knife is made with S35VN steel. Man I have to.say tht steel makes the best blade ever on a knife. At least so far. I will be getting my very first knife made with D2 steel real soon. It is my Ray Matton handmade First Blood knife, Ohhhhh yeahhhhhhh!!! When I get that beauty, I will then have First.Blood style handmade knives from the 4 best knife makers I could ever getvmade by. This is just my opinion.

Not taking anything at all away from other wonderful knife makers. There is one poser out there who Claims he makes his own knives but doesn't. Few years ago he rudely mocked me and crudely refused my.business. I think he didn't take my knife buying seriously. But anyway, today I am so very glad he treated me like he did. Had he not of done so, I'd be like all his other now-disappointed customers who have nothing but fake worthless knives, lol. Anyway, thanks for reading.