Crucible Service Center Update

T

tom mayo

Joined
Jan 27, 1999
Messages
6,277
I have been trying to buy cpm steels directly from crucible for well over a year now...most 420V because it is not being sold by any knife steel distributors and is rarely available from various sources. For well over a year all my efforts ended in dead ends....unreturned emails etc....well about 6 weeks ago I placed an order for some 440V and 420V. Today I got the 440V in the mail....no 420...I called and by chance someone was there on sat....the lady was very accomadating and reordered the 420v and got things rolling...explained a lot of the problems...etc....Now lets remember...I am one knifemaker ordering a dozen or so feet of exotic steel, when most of their customers order it by the TON...thats why there are knife distributors....but in the end...she explained that they just did a large expansion on their plant and that the CPM steels will be available on a regular basis (420V has been on the back shelf due to some of their new cpms that are being sold to industry)...the phone number is 1 800 365 1168...I think that is arlington texas...and to all you who sell steel to us knifemakers......sorry....but I gotta save some money....aloha. Just thought of this.. when you call...tell them you saw this post here...even mention my name but especially Bladeforums....and maybe we could get them to start advertising with Spark et al...

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http://www.mayoknives.com




[This message has been edited by tom mayo (edited 06-10-2000).]
 
Tom, please let us know if this steel is clean. I talked to both Terry Sommers of Admiral Steel and a Crucible rep at the Blade Show, and they told me the same thing in reference to the graininess of the 440c and ats-34 I've bought from them.I had a blade with the problem in it that I showed them both. They said it had nothing to do with shearing, but that the grainy part was actually the carbon in the steel. I'm not sure I buy this, but I see no reason why they wouldn't be straight with me about it. I don't plan on buying anymore stainless from Admiral even though their customer service is excellent. I wish they could solve the problem. Take care!! Michael

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Always think of your fellow knife makers as partners in the search for the perfect blade, not as people trying to compete with you and your work!http://www.nebsnow.com/L6steel
Buzzards gotta eat, same as worms!!!
 
At the Blade Show, Crucible identified 3 service centers that are supposed to be tuned into knifemakers. These are Los Angeles, Dallas (Arlingon), and Tampa. I met the Dallas manager, and he was great to chat with.

Michael, there may be some truths and half truths in what you heard. I don't think the problem is necessarily in the plate, but in how it is cut. Crucible's 154CM appears to be water jet cut and I don't see any of the graininess that is visible in Admiral's ATS-34, which I think is mechanically sheared. Shearing may a large part of that problem.

The 154CM is a whole lot cleaner on the surface and has almost no pitting as does the ATS from Admiral. Also, the sheared ATS-34 always has a rounded edge, which requires thinning the steel to use it full width. I find that annoying. The hot rolled ATS-34 bar I have gotten from other sources does not have these problems, however. Still, buying the home grown product has some appeal

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Jerry Hossom
www.hossom.com

[This message has been edited by GaKnife (edited 06-10-2000).]
 
Hey I didn't get a free sample!! I take back everything nice I just said about them...
smile.gif


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Jerry Hossom
www.hossom.com
 
L6 and others.....remember..I am talking about CPM steels...they wont have any of the problems mentioned because they are not made like conventional steel......the stuff is sprayed out of an atomizer while still liquid, swept up (well maybe not literally) and put in a crucible and remelted......this causes a very good molecular formation of the vanadium and other stuff.....its not poured and rolled like most steels. I will add this...Harv McBurnette told me that at steel mills....like anywhere else...the people are paid to produce...so their check is in correlation to how much steel their shift puts out....he told me that sometimes towards the end of the shift they "push" it and roll out steel that isnt as hot as it should be, etc...or rush the roll out or whatever...and it doesnt come out as good as it should.....I dont know this for fact, and Im not saying it is true...just a theory, but I personally have never gotten any nice steel from Admiral.....maybe they are buying surplus or even 2nd quality stuff.....Just a theory..I dont know this for sure....but I have ordered from them on many occasions and it always comes with the crappiest bark etc that i have ever see.....buying it from the mill at Crucible is my idea of getting the best product.

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http://www.mayoknives.com


[This message has been edited by tom mayo (edited 06-10-2000).]

[This message has been edited by tom mayo (edited 06-10-2000).]
 
Tom,
I spent quite a bit of time talking with the Crucible reps at the Blade Show. It was very enjoyable and informative. Those guys know their stuff. Here is the contact info for the guys I talked with. Maybe they can help you if you deal with them directly.

Bruce W. DiVita sales engineer Arlington, TX
phone 817-640-7777
WATTS 800-365-1168
FAX 817-633-8142

Ernie Riedl sales engineer Tampa, FL
phone 813-831-0990
WATTS 800-365-1159
FAX 813-831-0996

Ed Severson manager hot work & die steel development Camillus, NY
phone 315-487-0800
fax 315-487-4028

Hope it helps

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Barry
Jones Knives
http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumIndex?u=126319&a=926274
New Knives
http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumIndex?u=126319&a=5922856
"For DUTY and HUMANITY!"
Curly, Moe, & Larry
 
Ok, I'm slightly confused. Aren't the CPM steels atomized then welded not melted? From my understanding the steel powder is put in a press then heated to it's welding temperature, but not actually melted, so it can maintain a higher alloy count than a steel can hold as a liquid. Or should I go talk to a few more Mat. Sci. people?

--JB

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e_utopia@hotmail.com
 
BTW, Tom, Should I mention that they are going to send me a sample of a NEW steel to play around with. They said that it will have
wear resistance like no other stainless steel out there. I can't wait to get my hands on it. It should be interesting. I'll keep you posted.

I hope they remember to send it.

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Barry
Jones Knives
http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumIndex?u=126319&a=926274
New Knives
http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumIndex?u=126319&a=5922856
"For DUTY and HUMANITY!"
Curly, Moe, & Larry
 
Yes, the CPM is welded.

The Los Angeles numbers are:

800-365-1179 WATS
323-775-7344
310-830-9784 FAX

Some of the steel names have changed too.

CPM-440V is now S60V
CPM-420V is not S90V

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Jerry Hossom
www.hossom.com
 
Is this some sort of trick???? as for the new steel....they are already making a number of steels that are so wear resistant I dont think you can grind them...like 10V, but if you like standing in front of the grinder talking to yourself and watching your blade heat up and do nothing else...go for it.....Im sticking with 420V

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http://www.mayoknives.com


 
I had a good talk with the guys at Crucible at the Blade Show. I inuired about the availability of 3V.

Ernie called me at 8 am monday morning with a run down of what was available.

Couldnt ask for more than that.

Matt.

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"Eternal vigilance is the price of liberty"
Thomas Jefferson

www.lameyknives.com
 
barry- i am totally serious...get some 10V and a piece of vascowear and make them into a knife....and then see if you want to use something that is MORE abrasion resistant than that!!!!!!! Been there...done that.. life is too short.

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http://www.mayoknives.com


 
Tom,
Advice well taken. I am only interested in playing around with it. I was told to expect to spend a couple of months grinding this new steel into a knife. That is not something that I want to do on a regular basis.

I was also told that it takes some special heat treating that, according to the Crucible guys, Paul Bos could not handle. That is enough for me to not consider using it on a regular basis.

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Barry
Jones Knives
http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumIndex?u=126319&a=926274
New Knives
http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumIndex?u=126319&a=5922856
"For DUTY and HUMANITY!"
Curly, Moe, & Larry
 
Thanks for all the info guys!!! Does Crucible have a minimum order???

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Always think of your fellow knife makers as partners in the search for the perfect blade, not as people trying to compete with you and your work!http://www.nebsnow.com/L6steel
Buzzards gotta eat, same as worms!!!
 
I don't think Crucible is talking about something more wear resistant than 10V. I think what they are planning is more like a stainless 3V. In other words a stainless that has good toughness and wear resistance, but not necessarily as good as 10V or 3V at either one. Maybe something more like 154Cm with an attitude.

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Jerry Hossom
www.hossom.com
 
Then again, if Paul can't heat treat it, who can? I'd suggest that Crucible better be showing Paul how or a lot of folks aren't going to use it.

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Jerry Hossom
www.hossom.com
 
Just to make sure I understand, is this correct or a typo, Jerry?

"CPM-440V is now S60V
CPM-420V is not S90V"

420V is NOT S90V? Just want to double check since S90V is supposed to be Microtech's new wondersteel.

Jack

 
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