Cryogenics... do you care?

atavist

atavist

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Nov 29, 2012
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So a question for all you knife junkies...

Is a cryogenically treated blade a selling point??

My forge is now fully thermostatic and I have low temp salt baths for isothermal quench and temper heat treating for bainite/mixed bainite structure.

...So for the way ahead I am considering building myself a true cryogenic tank (-300f)... easy enough task as I am HVAC certified and very comfortable with dry nitrogen set ups.... just wondering if anyone really cares since even building it myself isn't cheap.

Metallurgicaly it is a great thing... from austentite to room temp in a flash most steels only reach about 90% marten site... cryogenics (not just a freezer) take the blade to full potential... its the difference in Camaro brake rotars vs Ferrari brake rotars (actual example)...

As a knife junkie/collector/general comsumer do you care??

Thanks for your input... forge is doing well and looking looking for input on the way ahead.
 
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Personally YES. I have seen magical things done with cryotreats. I've had rifle barrels cryo treated that went from shooting 2 inch 100m groups to 1/4" groups. The way it redefines the grain structure even helps with harmonics. You can even get cryo treated fishing line with incredibly increased tensile strength over non treated line in the same diameter. I think it's great
 
In a word... No.

I suppose it depends on the price impact. For $5-10 more, sure I want it, but for $50? Probably not.
 
It sure sounds cool go tell someone about your cryogenically treated blade....

Seriously though, (as a general consumer), a knife in my price range cryo'd vs. a comparable blade not cryo'd, I'd go for the cryo one in most circumstances, even for a bit more $, but as the post above me put it, if its going to push the blade out of my budget range then it doesn't matter what was done to it. I still can't justifiably afford it. But I also am not in the high end, custom, or even mid-tech market, at the moment any more then window shopping and considerations, so may not really apply to me in regards to your question...
 
ATwistedStaple said:
In a word... No.

I suppose it depends on the price impact. For $5-10 more, sure I want it, but for $50? Probably not.
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Price is always a good point ... not sure exactly what the price impact will be... if I build the rig i plan to increase prices based on actual cost, not time, as I can always do other things while babysitting the cryo tank (same as tempering) ... so based on theoretical figures probably about +$25/blade.
 
When I read your post originally I didn't bother to see whom was doing the posting. From a maker standpoint, hell yeah you should cryo treat them. I wish I had the setup to do it. My forge still blows(pun intended).
 
ATwistedStaple said:
When I read your post originally I didn't bother to see whom was doing the posting. From a maker standpoint, hell yeah you should cryo treat them. I wish I had the setup to do it. My forge still blows(pun intended).
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Nice.. another vote yes..
I'm using this thread to convince the wife its a good investment ;)
 
Some steels need it, some don't. Even if customers don't care, you should.
 
I have no experience with Cryotreated blades...so my answer is kind of moot.

But if it only meant a dollar difference of up to $25 then I'd say 'yes'.........higher than that, "no"
 
Price is relative too. A $50 increase on a $50 knife is huge. The same increase on a $300 knife isn't such a big deal. Given that you're basically in the custom market I have to think the price increase will be accommodated.
 
How does the cryo treat fit into the overall blade making process? Is it done after the heat treat or something else? Also, what are the main benefits to most steels?
 
I deeply believe that it is very important to by honest in ones knifemaking.

You SHOULD build cryo and treat blades with that ONLY if you believe that it will make them better. Not just because it is selling point.
I see no problem in convincing customers that lets say properly HT secondary hardening steel needs no cryo, as there won't be any RA left after three cycles.

But if you work with m290, or elmax and go for high corrosion resistance - no real secondary hardening, than cryo would be beneficial and should be used.
 
m78a3k.jpg
 
Let me ask this....is Cryo really that important in producing a workable blade? I'm not trying to be a douche about it, I know nothing about the benefits of Cryo....

I guess what I'm asking is....if a knife has an intended purpose and absolutely does its job without the Cryo, then why is it even an option?
 
druid189 said:
Let me ask this....is Cryo really that important in producing a workable blade? I'm not trying to be a douche about it, I know nothing about the benefits of Cryo....

I guess what I'm asking is....if a knife has an intended purpose and absolutely does its job without the Cryo, then why is it even an option?
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If you persue the best blade you will look for best solution...
For many if not most makers workable is not enough.
 
I think that in some applications a knife could benefit from cryo. That being said, it is not a selling point, rather a nice option
 
Looking at the chart which shows Increased Wear Resistance with cryo, it becomes pretty obvious that a small price increase can yield large benefits. If I'm using D2, 52100 or O1 steels, for instance, the Wear Resistance nearly doubles after cryo.
Assuming that the chart is "correct"...then with some steels, the benefit of cryo is tremendous. With some other steels...not so much.
Yes, I would GLADLY pay extra for cryo...when it is indicated by test results.
 
First - cryo is -300 F [ I hope the - 200 F is a typo ] this is the boiling point of liquid nitrogen LN ]

Cryo does NOT refine or otherwise change the grain structure !!

Some steels benefit , some don't.

Cryo is part of the HT not an add-on done later.

Many tests on rifles have been done ,some custom rifle makers claim improvement some don't.
 
Sonnydaze said:
Looking at the chart which shows Increased Wear Resistance with cryo, it becomes pretty obvious that a small price increase can yield large benefits. If I'm using D2, 52100 or O1 steels, for instance, the Wear Resistance nearly doubles after cryo.
Assuming that the chart is "correct"...then with some steels, the benefit of cryo is tremendous. With some other steels...not so much.
Yes, I would GLADLY pay extra for cryo...when it is indicated by test results.
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This. I will happily pay for a commensurate increase in performance. That said, I'm no metallurgist and, absent a chart like the one above, cryo treatment is a buzzword to me as much as anything else. With that in mind, I would encourage you to cite the specific, verifiable advantages of cryo treatment if and when you do it.
 
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