CS Recon Tanto vs Birch log. Winner: Birch log

Thomas Linton said:
IIRC, the "abuse" was driving the knife into the log, pushing the handle down and holding it firmly, and striking the tip of the knife with the baton.
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Pressing down on the handle does raise the load on the knife, however it is necessary on twisted or knotty wood, as otherwise the knife just rotates with no vertical movement.

This should also not be beyond the ability of the steel, heavy chopping with a locked wrist and a powerful follow through will induce similar strains, possibly larger depending on the knife.

I talked about this with a few makers who make tactical/survival knives when Steward bought it up as I wanted to see if anyone would actually support that position. Justin of Ranger Knives had one of the best responces :

"They can stand on the handle while they baton on it for all I care. "

-Cliff
 
Cliff Stamp said:
This should also not be beyond the ability of the steel, heavy chopping with a locked wrist and a powerful follow through will induce similar strains, possibly larger depending on the knife.
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Does one not develop more force with a baton than swinging a "KA-Bar" ? It it not a very thick blade nor made with the weight particularly forward. The Gunny certainly intended to break the knife to make his point and did so readily.

I talked about this with a few makers who make tactical/survival knives when Steward bought it up as I wanted to see if anyone would actually support that position. Justin of Ranger Knives had one of the best responces :

"They can stand on the handle while they baton on it for all I care. "

-Cliff
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Most of "Ranger's" excellent knives seem to be 1/4" thick, full-width/length tang, 5160 steel. I have no doubt I could "stand" on mine. :)

And it's "Stewart."
 
For the record, I was not firmly pushing down on the handle while batoning by hitting the tip of the knife. I was barely holding on to the handle (in order to keep the log from falling over) while hitting the knife with the baton near the middle of the blade. The blade was not yet fully embedded in the log at the time it snapped.
 
Sharp corner at the blade/tang juntion causes problems:
- a place to get cracks at quench
- sharp corner causes stress concentration, a crack even more
- a crack is a good place for corrosion

But unless the handle is held at the very end most of the stress is shear and shear is unlikely to cause that kind of fracture. Bending again does it easily but the kind of brittle fracture shown does not happen even with a crack unless the state of the metal is too hard (or the material is prone for low-temp brittle fracture).

As often a don't see how any one factor could have caused the fracture but two or more are required. "Misuse" is not a reason, it is an attempt at explanation.

TLM
 
FoxholeAtheist said:
For the record, I was not firmly pushing down on the handle while batoning by hitting the tip of the knife. I was barely holding on to the handle (in order to keep the log from falling over) while hitting the knife with the baton near the middle of the blade. The blade was not yet fully embedded in the log at the time it snapped.
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I think you made that clear in previous posts.
 
Thomas Linton said:
Does one not develop more force with a baton than swinging a "KA-Bar" ?
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Yes, those knives are light and neutral, however look at the other knives they make out of the same steel.

Here for example the Recon Tanto isn't a heavy chopper design so batoning gives it heavier impacts.

However they also make large khukuris out of the same steel, so the steel itself has to be able to take the impacts.

Most of "Ranger's" excellent knives seem to be 1/4" thick, full-width/length tang, 5160 steel. I have no doubt I could "stand" on mine.
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Knives are really strong on that axis as you are loading them along their width, you could easily do a pull up on a 1/8" mora if you loaded it vertically.

You don't need much thickness to baton, the only problem if you go really thin is that the edge can buckle/warp.

-Cliff
 
This thread has been wandering around, so when I read:

"IIRC, the "abuse" was driving the knife into the log, pushing the handle down and holding it firmly, and striking the tip of the knife with the baton. This turns almost the full length of the blade into a lever arm, multiplying the stress on the blade-tang junction."

... I thought you were referring to my specific case.

No problemo. :)
 
FoxholeAtheist said:
This thread has been wandering around, so when I read:

"IIRC, the "abuse" was driving the knife into the log, pushing the handle down and holding it firmly, and striking the tip of the knife with the baton. This turns almost the full length of the blade into a lever arm, multiplying the stress on the blade-tang junction."

... I thought you were referring to my specific case.

No problemo. :)
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Did you call CS? The suspense is killing me reading all this with no info regarding what the manufacturer has to say. I think that would be good information.
 
Nope, haven't called them. I've had this knife past the 5 years they list as their fixed-blade warranty, and I also cut the handle in half in order to take a picture of it.
 
FoxholeAtheist said:
So, after reading about batoning here, I decided to try it while having an evening campground trip with the family tonight. I was making my first attempt on a birch log, using another piece of birch for a baton, when the knife broke at the blade-handle junction. I don't have a digital camera, but I'll try to get pics of it at some point.

I don't know whether to fault the knife or my own lack of skill on this one. I had held onto the handle until the blade was solidly into the log, then was just hitting the back of the blade to drive it all the way into the log, at which point I was going to grab the handle again and start batoning the projecting end of the blade. The blade was not yet all the way into the log when the handle just snapped off. (I was lightly holding onto it at the time just to balance the log.)

The break is nice and clean, no chips or shards missing.
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Hi,

When do you bought your Recon Tanto? Which year?
What was the material of the blade? Carbon V or AUS8A?

thanks.

Monx.
 
its aliveeeeeeeeeeee hahaha
i was reading through this thread going this is all so familiar i know Ive read it before .... then i saw the date. its great that this forum keeps suck a great archive of past posts.
 
Thomas Linton said:
Could someone explain, calmly if pos, the objections to bringing up old threads?
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none, I guess, but it seems that it happens more with cold steel threads than anything else. I do it when I find threads that other individuals might find interesting from a knowledge point of view.

I would have resurrected this thread from a batoning point of view since I feel technique should not matter.
 
In this case, the question that revived this thread is directed to a member who posted yesterday. If that member subscribed to this thread, which seems likely, there is every chance that he will answer the question (although I think Cobalt's recollection is likely correct).
 
Bringing back up old threads, especially the threads with heated exchanges, just brings the old animosity back to the forefront.
As well as possibly creating new animosity & heated exchanges with posters who don't realize that it is an old thread.

Write a new post, and link to the old one for reference.

Calm enough?
:D
 
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