CSU FRESNO: they took my strider!

Charlie Mike

Charlie Mike

Sober since 1-7-14 (still a Paranoid Nutjob)
Knifemaker / Craftsman / Service Provider
Joined
Nov 1, 2000
Messages
28,365
Last Thursday, I was arrested by CSUF PD.

I am a resident in the dorms and I worked for the PD last semester doing video surveilance. I was good friends with all the officers and they new me well. That night, I was on BFC in the computer lab and an officer asked me if we talk outside. As soon as we got outside, he forcibly restrained me and asked if i have any weapons. I replied "Yes, I have a pocketknife (a Buck/Strider) in a belt sheath and a SAK on my keychain." He said "Anything else?" And my reply was in the negative. Then he asked "Alright, where's the gun at?"

I had no gun. I don't even "own" agun of any sort. I consented to a search of my dorm while I sat cuffed in one of three squad cars parked outside. Of course, they found nothing. Then I was taken to the on campus PD, where I was repeatedly grilled about a gun. They said they had a statement saying someone saw me displaying a handgun in my dorm. Every time I answered, I was told that I was lying. Then it was off to county, where I stayed the night and then posted bail.

My best friend Chris was also harassed the next morning. They saw his Baretta Airlight folder on his desk. He was grilled about a gun as well and was almost sent to jail. The next day he took a copy of the penal code and his knife to the PD. He spoke to the investigator and showed him section 626.10(b). It mentions nothing about folding knives being prohibited. The investigator said "I'd have to agree with you on that one."

Now I am facing a felony charge for a knife that is not illegal to posess on campus.

Total bull$hit

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The meek shall inherit the earth because they stay up late and change the will.
 
Sorry to hear that. Have you checked shootist16's earlier post about online searchable knife law resources? Do they have have you on blade length in a California public school or university? It looks like the Strider has a longer blade than they allow in a folder. There is some good advice here, use it. Best of luck.
 
solid_soldier - That is complete bullsh!t!! Fight it! Your Strider is perfectly legal for you to have on campus. I checked Fresno's city laws and no mention of knives there either. You were not breaking any laws. Have your lawyer send a copy of PC 626.10b to the PD & DA, and hopefully they will see their error and not press charges.


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Jason aka medusaoblongata
-----------------------
"To give is a need, to receive is mercy." - Thus Spoke Zarathustra
"Cutting his throat is only a momentary pleasure and is bound to get you talked about." - Lazarus Long
"Knowledge is not made for understanding; it is made for cutting." - Michel Foucault
 
Dang! That really sucks.
mad.gif


Since you didn't break a state law (626.10b basically just prohibits fixed blades over 2.5"), I'd guess they would eventually drop the criminal charges.

The university may want to discipline you though; their weapons policy is typically vague.
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Weapons Policy

The unauthorized possession, use or sale of firearms, ammunition, fireworks,explosives, or any dangerous weapons are forbidden, and are subject to university discipline and/or criminal prosecution. Approval for possession is by exception only and granted only by the Chief of Police or as specified in the California Penal Code. It is unlawful for on-campus residents to possess in their dorms, or on their person, any weapons. Weapons may be stored for safekeeping only at the University Police Department and access is available with advanced notification and appointment</font>
Click to expand...
www.csufresno.edu/police/law.htm#weapons

Since it's unlawful to possess "any weapons" and you freely admitted that your knife was a weapon, the university might try to give you a hard time. Hopefully, they'll dispense some meaningless punishment, like moving you to another dorm, or decide to just drop the matter completely.

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Cerulean

"My good reason to carry a knife is that God gave me rather weak teeth and rudimentary claws in an evolutionary trade-off." - J.K.M.

[This message has been edited by cerulean (edited 03-01-2001).]
 
I really hate it when things like this happen. There are some things that I would like to point out that I would have done differently, not that you did anything wrong. I would NOT have consented to a dorm room search, especially if I couldn't be there when they did it. I also would not have answered any questions, other than name, birthdate, and other personal info without a lawyer.

What exactly did they charge you with?

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Dennis Bible

mylogosmall.gif
 
My take on this is that you have an enemy somewhere around there.

The Firearms charge is what got things rolling. Without that there would have no interest in the knife. The knife was used to give them an excuse to hold you while they searched your room.

Someone picked you out personally to have a hard time, perhaps someone inside the PD. If that someone is outside the PD you may be good shape, if they are inside, you are in for a hard time for the foreseeable future.

Keep a low profile, and see if you can find out where the information cane from, while keeping a low profile.

Someone out there doesn't like you. It would be nice to know who it is.


Mike
 
Shootist16: They are charging me with CPC 626.10(b), a felony. I knew there was nothing incriminating in my dorm whatsoeve, so I welcomed the search.

Cerulean: My mother researched the weapons policy at CSUF and they permit knives with a blade under 5".

I also failed to mention that they kicked me out of the dorms for this one.

My family has retained an attourney who is well known (Dan Bacon) and has an ability to smell bullsh!t a mile away. Furthurmore, my crim 20 professor (retired superior court judge, Victor Papadakus) told me the same thing that all of you have said. I am going to ask him if he could pen a character reference letter as we are good friends and have a tendency to talk about guns after every class. That should have some weight, legally.

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The meek shall inherit the earth because they stay up late and change the will.
 
I have little doubt that you will beat the charge, unfortunately look at the headache it is causing you. Not to mention the $$$$$.

The thing you have to be careful about by letting them search your room, especially while you arent there, is the possibility of planting evidence.

Once this gets cleared up, I would very seriously consider civil action.

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Dennis Bible

....Coming soon, The Leading Edge....
 
And, right after the civil action I think I would start looking for another school to spend the proceeds on. After all, why give them their money back.


Mike
 
OK, put simply, I've seen this crap before.

YOU MUST END UP PRESSING FALSE ARREST CHARGES AGAINST THE POLICE.

They are not allowed to make an arrest for something that isn't illegal. This crap will keep happening until somebody makes the cops themselves *pay* and pay big.

You also need to find out who did the false gun report. That's a criminal act in and of itself (filing a false police report) and again: PAYBACK.

Last, the school itself had no right to boot you out of the dorm over false charges. There's serious "renter protection" built into the law, if they've evicted you, SUE.

Nail the bastards, every last one of 'em.

I'm going to quote some actual pieces of law now. You're going to want to print this out and show it to your attorney because it's more complex than it seems at first.

Here's 626.10(b):
-----
Any person, except a duly appointed peace officer as defined in Chapter 4.5 (commencing with Section 830) of Title 3 of Part 2, a full-time paid peace officer of another state or the federal government who is carrying out official duties while in this state, a person summoned by any officer to assist in making arrests or preserving the peace while the person is actually engaged in assisting any officer, or a member of the military forces of this state or the United States who is engaged in the performance of his or her duties, who brings or possesses any dirk, dagger, ice pick, or knife having a fixed blade longer than 21/2 inches upon the grounds of, or within, any private university, the University of California, the California State University, or the California Community Colleges is guilty of a public offense, punishable by imprisonment in a county jail not exceeding one year, or by imprisonment in the state prison.
-----

Now, here's the section of 626.10(a) which covers K-12 schools and how it DIFFERS from the above:

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...who brings or possesses any dirk, dagger, ice pick, knife having a blade longer than 21/2 inches, folding knife with a blade that locks into place...
-------

For the K-12 set, they DO clearly ban something like the Strider...so if they'd intended to do so for the College/University crowd, they would have. It's not an oversight and it's not subject to interpretation.

Finally, there's the "dirk/dagger" language in both. The term "dirk or dagger" is defined in Penal Code 12020(24):

-----
As used in this section, a "dirk" or "dagger" means a knife or other instrument with or without a handguard that is capable of ready use as a stabbing weapon that may inflict great bodily injury or death. A nonlocking folding knife, a folding knife that is not prohibited by Section 653k, or a pocketknife is capable of ready use as a stabbing weapon that may inflict great bodily injury or death only if the blade of the knife is exposed and locked into position.
-----

According to this, your closed Strider could not possibly fall into the "dirk/dagger" pitfall. The last question is, does Section 653k prohibit the Strider or not? PC 653k reads in part:

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..."Switchblade knife" does not include a knife that is designed to open with one hand utilizing thumb pressure applied solely to the blade of the knife or a thumb stud attached to the blade...
-----

...therefore as a thumbstud opener the Strider isn't banned under 653k. (Quick aside: the above also legalizes Spyderco *holes* because you're applying pressure to the blade (the part that has a hole).

No question, flat-out, you're clean.

DO NOT assume your lawyer will know this!!! No joke: I prepped a guy's public defender once who had NO clue. Print this, show the lawyer!

Jim March
Equal Rights for CCW Home Page
http://www.ninehundred.com/~equalccw
 
Let me reiterate what Jim just said. You have to follow through with litigation. Everyone that this happens to needs to also. Malicious action such as this cannot be tolerated.

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Dennis Bible

....Coming soon, The Leading Edge....
 
Man, what a bummer. It's amazing that they're charging you under 626.10(b). That's such a joke.

I still think they'll eventually drop the charges once a prosecutor sees the case and actually looks at the law. Even if it does go to trial, how could you lose? I mean, geez... the Penal Code seems pretty clear.

If you want to look on the bright side though, at least the university didn't try to kick you out of school, which would have been a huge pain in the ass to deal with.

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Cerulean

"My good reason to carry a knife is that God gave me rather weak teeth and rudimentary claws in an evolutionary trade-off." - J.K.M.

[This message has been edited by cerulean (edited 03-02-2001).]
 
I went to court today and they postponed the arraignment til June. My lawyer said the case has "the stuff" for a good civil suit against the PD. The arresting officer definitely had it in for me. I don't know why, I worked at the PD 5 nights a week and I was a well liked employee. I'm going to hate doing this, but as many of you have said, civil action is the right thing to do here.

And I will be getting my Strider back...in June
frown.gif


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The meek shall inherit the earth because they stay up late and change the will.
 
Please keep us updated. I really feel for you. You have my support.

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Dennis Bible

....Coming soon, The Leading Edge....
 
solid_soldier - You might also want to let AKTI know about this. I know they work closely with Buck Knives, and have been very active in California legal matters. They might also have some good advice for you. Good luck.


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Jason aka medusaoblongata
-----------------------
"To give is a need, to receive is mercy." - Thus Spoke Zarathustra
"Cutting his throat is only a momentary pleasure and is bound to get you talked about." - Lazarus Long
"Knowledge is not made for understanding; it is made for cutting." - Michel Foucault
 
Wow...i just stumbled across this thread...Anyways, 626.10(b) is a wobbler, which means it's classified as a felony or misdemeanor, but charged as a felony by the P.D. Also, the definition for dirk or dagger in 12020 doesnt apply to this section, as it defines dirk/dagger in the following:

"626.10(h) As used in this section, "dirk" or "dagger" means a knife or
other instrument with or without a handguard that is capable of ready
use as a stabbing weapon that may inflict great bodily injury or
death."

Which is actually the old 12020 definition...

As for eviction, etc...I'm not sure you have a lot of renter's rights, because of the dormitory/campus relationship. Check out this, as it relates to search and seizure::

626.11. (a) Any evidence seized by a teacher, official, employee,
or governing board member of any university, state university, or
community college, or by any person acting under his or her direction
or with his or her consent in violation of standards relating to
rights under the Fourth Amendment to the United States Constitution
or under Section 13 of Article I of the State Constitution to be free
from unreasonable searches and seizures, or in violation of state or
federal constitutional rights to privacy, or any of them, is
inadmissible in administrative disciplinary proceedings.
(b) Any provision in an agreement between a student and an
educational institution specified in subdivision (a) relating to the
leasing, renting, or use of a room of any student dormitory owned or
operated by the institution by which the student waives a
constitutional right under the Fourth Amendment to the United States
Constitution or under Section 13 of Article I of the State
Constitution, or under state or federal constitutional provision
guaranteeing a right to privacy, or any of them, is contrary to
public policy and void.
(c) Any evidence seized by a person specified in subdivision (a)
after a nonconsensual entry not in violation of subdivision (a) into
a dormitory room, which evidence is not directly related to the
purpose for which the entry was initially made, is not admissible in
administrative disciplinary proceedings.


As for a good defense, I would start with looking into the initial "gun" report that started it all (if it even exists). You would have some terrific leverage if you could deduce the fact that the officer involved or another officer knew this was a bogus call...If that can't be proven, and he was legitimately working from an anonomous or known tip/statement, then the problem increases, slightly, though this all should be documented in the police report. If the report of a gun is false, then that would make everything else that came afterward inadmissable.

Another quick point, the person who reported the "gun" can't be prosecuted for filing a false report, unless it was done intentionally.

In all likelyhood, this will be tossed out in the interest of justice...

--dan


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pint1.gif

"It is not the critic who counts, not the man who points out how the strong man stumbled, or where the doer of deeds could have done better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena; whose face is marred by the dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs and comes short again and again; who knows the great enthusiasms, the great devotions and spends himself in a worthy course; who at the best, knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who, at worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly; so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who know neither victory or defeat."
THEODORE ROOSEVELT
(Paris Sorbonne,1910)

Co-Moderator of the General Flashlight, Lantern, & Headlamp Discussion Board at www.candlepowerforums.com
1*

[This message has been edited by dano (edited 03-04-2001).]
 
Thanks to all of you guys for your help and for giving me the courage to go on with this case. I realize I haven't been on the forums that long (realitively speaking) and I really love this place. We knife people stick together, and from the the support you guys have given me, it shows.

Again, thank you

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The meek shall inherit the earth because they stay up late and change the will.
 
Solid_Soldier, as a knife lover, you have my support. No one should be arrested when they are clearly not breaking the law. As the others said, you should clearly take action against those who lied about you and misused the law. I think that all of us at Bladeforums should look at incidents like this and use them to broaden our perspectives. As Knifenuts, were are a minority. In particular, we are a minority about whom there are many negative stereotypes. Just as we can all identify with Solid_Soldier, we should also keep an open mind when someone different from us complains of mistreatment. Every cry of discrimination is not justified, but they all deserve serious investigation and consideration. If we don't want that for others, then we have no moral right to demand it for ourselves.
 
If any of you ever feel naked when you don't have something ie: wristwatch, wedding band, etc., then you can identify with my feelings right now. Since the arrest, I have not had a knife on me at all. The Strider and the SAK were the only knives that I own. I'm the type of knife nut that sticks with a good knife, I buy a new blade if I know it is dramatically better than the one I EDC. I usually end up selling the old one or giving it to a friend. (My digressing will end here
biggrin.gif
) Anyway, last Wednesday I ordered a BM 350BT and I CAN'T WAIT til it gets here. And by God, I'm going to carry that ****er on campus.

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The meek shall inherit the earth because they stay up late and change the will.

[This message has been edited by solid_soldier (edited 03-06-2001).]
 
Solid-soldier.
I just found your post tonight.
I agree with the others. You must fight this.
My perspective is a little different as I am a Canadian LEO and this may piss some other LEO's off but hell, right is right and wrong is wrong.
Just as a thought you might want to refrain from any-more posts on this subject until the matter is finished. I mention this for a couple of reasons. 1)The cause of your trouble in the first place might be related to your earlier Feb., post. It could have been read by the instigator of the complaint
who was able to identify you by the description of your former association with the Police Dept. This person may or may not be a LEO you annoyed somehow.
2)Your last posting re ordering a new knife and intention to carry it will only give grounds to make your life more miserable. "Gee yer Honour I had lots of R.P.G. to stop this nefarious knife toting menace to society. He was bragging all over the internet that he was gonna get another knife and carry it on campus."

good-luck

Kraut....

"Just because your paranoid dosn't mean there isn't still someone out to get you!
.....Henry Kissinger
 
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