Cupped washers situation

E

emjay4248

Joined
Oct 8, 2016
Messages
1,160
To Sal or Eric Glesser
I am the proud owner of approximately 40 Spyderco knives and occasionally there are problems that need to be tended to. My issue is that I have a Domino that needs new steel washers due to them being cupped and is also causing the knife to be off center. I had the same issue with a Southard lest year. I did not mind paying for the repair then because I had the bearings replaced and the knife sharpened so it didn't bother me. In reference to the cupped bearings the young man on the phone told me this is normal and it would be a $20 charge.

We all know this is not true and that the washers in flippers have been a longstanding problem. As we all know this is the reason the Advocate was recalled. I don't mind paying when it is something that I did, but when a knife that cost me close to $200.00 has an inherent problem that was not caused by abuse or misuse it should be taken care of the company that made it. I have more than a few thousand dollars invested in my Spyderco collection I believe that customer service should be #1 and to have the person trained to tell you that this is normal should be an embarrassment. If Spyderco has become this petty and has also bumped their prices quite a bit you as a company should stand behind your product.

There have been other instances when I needed to send a knife back to the manufacturer such as Boker, Benchmade, CRKT, Kershaw, ZT and Shun over the years and I have never been asked to pay for something that was caused in the manufacturing process. I will refrain from getting into the attitude the kid had.
I have three knives in the new 2018 in mind to buy and I will probably think twice about purchasing them.

You guys have a lot of loyal customers that collect Spyderco knives and enjoy them and I have read in the forums before about similar issues. As I don't mind spending money on things but once I do I expect to get good warranty service for my money.
I would appreciate a response in this matter

My E-mail is mj21361@gmail.com
Thank you
M. Joseph
 
I haven't paid too much attention to this whole issue, because i simply don't buy anything with bearing pivots, my wallet has an auto close feature when i read the word bearings. But Sal and Eric are top shelf people who actually care about their customers, and i'm sure they would sort this all out. So, don't worry too much until you speak to someone a little higher in the tree.
 
OP,
Did you take the knife apart and over tightened the pivot?

Because I have had a few Domino's and have had zero issues with them.
 
You claim to know alot of false information.

The Advocate was never recalled. Production was halted to focus resources on investigating the claims of defect. It was found that only a handful of warranty claims came in, suggesting there was no overall product issue. Pivot changes were made before continuing production per CQI standards.
 
Advice to all - please do not attack the original poster. These threads go downhill fast and Spyderco does NOT need you to defend them. The vast majority of their products speak volumes in their favor. His post did not sound like a rant to me, and if he worded things in a way perceived as exaggeration, you can debate, but why declare it to be false? Many of us read Tazkristi's explanation on this on the home forum and it has come up before. There is a huge ascertainment bias involved - spyderco may be in the position of only judging what gets returned, but a lot of problems might not be returned because the owner does not want to go through the hassle or decides to tolerate the problem. My southard has never been a good flipper, but I like it anyway, so I just used it as a standard two hand opener. I love my Mantra2 and it worked until it did not work. I sent it in and was told there was no problem, but when a flipper does not flip, I have to disagree. I also did not want to pay for a repair, so I ate the shipping cost and just had them send it back. They cleaned it at least and CS was very polite, too. My point is, most of the knives may be fine, but if you have a problem one, it is still a problem to you, and you spent a lot of money on it. Spyderco remains my favorite knife company, no contest. But I don't buy flippers anymore (which is ok, I prefer thumbhole openers anyway :)).
 
??????

I'm sorry to inform you that the threat of takin' you business and 20 piece collection and goin' home has no weight here. If Sal and Eric decide to address you issue it'll be because they felt it needed to be addressed, not because of your threat. I seriously doubt they care about your minuscule contributions. Being the business men they are and proud of their product the'll most likely address this but it's not because of your temper
emjay4248 said:
I will refrain from getting into the attitude the kid had.
I have three knives in the new 2018 in mind to buy and I will probably think twice about purchasing them ttoo. QUOTE]

You kY

Might as well name him, you just about pointed your finger at him. Do youYou might as well name the person you've basically implicated them in poor CS practices. really think the veiled implication was that vague? Instead of comin' on here and blastin' Sal and company et al a little more effort at resolvin' it through private channels would have served you so much better than this. How long have you waited, how many times have you tried to contact Sal or Eric? You don't say, you just come here and blast a major supporter of Blade Forums and a stand up member of the knife community. I owe Sal nothin' I have no investment in Spyderco aside from bein' there with Sal in the beginning and buyin' the first knife in the long line of Spyderco knives.

Sal's always done right by me and even replaced a broken knife that was discontinued and gave me full msrp credit for another they no longer made. I'm no SpyderFanBoi but do recognize a great knife backed by a great company with excellent CS.

Personally If I was Sal I'd refund your money provided you had a receipt and had sent in a signed warranty card and then I'd make you sign a document agreein' to never buy a Spyderco product again. Give your money and business to CRKT, SOG and who ever else you listed, unfortunately I fear that when one of them don't jump and salute when you come callin' you'll play the same card and will be postin' about them soon enough. Maybe instead of collectin' knives you should stick to Hot Wheels cars.

I don't usually jump in on threads like this but I really feel you're bein' unfair to Sal and company, no matter what they did short of replacin' it and givin' him some discount coupons, he'll never be satisfied anyway.

M. Joseph, I apologize if I have you all wrong but seems to me you're comin' across as impatient, self entitled an used to gettin' your way when you stomp your feet. Sal's good people as well as Eric, if there's a problem that is legitimate they will address it.

As for me Ted E., just as you have your opinions about Sal and company, I have mine about you, hope I'm as wrong as you are.


I'm editing out my opinion sort of because the poster before me was right, I shouldn't attack the OP and Sal and company don't need me to defend them. I know what good people they are and what a great CSM they have. Sorry the OPP had the problems he claims to have had.

Ted E.
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I tend to believe that the washers cupping - on Spyderco flippers - may well be "normal" (for them). I have disassembled only two, both used Mantra2s, and both had cupped washers. One flipped fine, the other just didn't. A good cleaning and light lube before reassembly left both functioning properly. Maybe it will develop into a problem, maybe it won't; only time will tell.
Perhaps it is a reflection of my age...but I don't think that creating a thread on a public forum is the best approach. Hopefully, you actually sent that as correspondence to them directly; and only posted here as a documentation of your efforts.
 
T. Erdelyi said:
??????

I'm sorry to inform you that the threat of takin' you business and 20 piece collection and goin' home has no weight here. If Sal and Eric decide to address you issue it'll be because they felt it needed to be addressed, not because of your threat. I seriously doubt they care about your minuscule contributions. Being the business men they are and proud of their product the'll most likely address this but it's not because of your temper
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What a jerk thing to say Ted. Trying to get a free knife from Spyderco?
 
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uxo2 said:
OP,
Did you take the knife apart and over tightened the pivot?

Because I have had a few Domino's and have had zero issues with them.
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Fair questions and the answers are yes and no.I have 3 Domino's and all of them are on the looser side because I have been aware of this problem for a long time. My other two I purposely leave loose so as not to put any pressure on the washers when not in use. I am actually getting tired of having to worry about it. These as you all know were close to $200 each. To have a problem with them is one thing but to tell me this is normal and it will cost $20 before I could finish my sentence is another. I asked politely to speak to his supervisor, I was put on hold for about 7 minutes and then passed to an answering machine. Still haven't heard back. I would not be as upset if this hadn't already happened to me once with my Southard.
My issue is that when I have called Benchmade, Boker, Kershaw and ZT I was addressed by a friendly person who was happy to help but when I called Spyderco I get the opposite. This really frustrates me because Sal and Eric seem like nice dedicated people and I have been a loyal customer for a few years but we are not dealing with $20 gas station knives they are all $100 Plus. I have purchased many knives on pre-order and very much like the product but customer service is how companies like Spyderco will be able to keep making and selling American made products. A few month's ago I had a bit of a problem with a Kizer Vanguard Intrepid, I called and they said send it back to them and they will take care of it. 2 days later I got a call that will send me a new one. They even exchanged my Green one for a black one. I do not worry when I need to call them. Hopefully Spyderco will get my e-mails and understand that I want American companies to succeed but with high prices and sub-par customer service it will effect the bottom line. I spent close to $4000.00 on Spyderco's last year alone. I believe that having many customers whom avidly collect their knives makes it necessary to keep customers happy. This whole situation leaves a bad taste in my mouth.
 
dogrunner said:
Advice to all - please do not attack the original poster. These threads go downhill fast and Spyderco does NOT need you to defend them. The vast majority of their products speak volumes in their favor. His post did not sound like a rant to me, and if he worded things in a way perceived as exaggeration, you can debate, but why declare it to be false? Many of us read Tazkristi's explanation on this on the home forum and it has come up before. There is a huge ascertainment bias involved - spyderco may be in the position of only judging what gets returned, but a lot of problems might not be returned because the owner does not want to go through the hassle or decides to tolerate the problem. My southard has never been a good flipper, but I like it anyway, so I just used it as a standard two hand opener. I love my Mantra2 and it worked until it did not work. I sent it in and was told there was no problem, but when a flipper does not flip, I have to disagree. I also did not want to pay for a repair, so I ate the shipping cost and just had them send it back. They cleaned it at least and CS was very polite, too. My point is, most of the knives may be fine, but if you have a problem one, it is still a problem to you, and you spent a lot of money on it.
Spyderco remains my favorite knife company, no contest. But I don't buy flippers anymore (which is ok, I prefer thumbhole openers anyway :)).
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I appreciate you understanding the jist of my thread. I don't want a free knife as one genius had said but I do expect decent to good customer service when the items that we buy cost hundreds of dollars and we do not have the means to fix it ourselves. All that had to be done was to send 2 small washers that probably cost 3 cents each and I would have been happy to pay the postage. This was not a rant this was me telling the forum what had happened and to see if it had happened to any other members.
 
Instead of trying to downplay the dishing issue, I'm just going to say that there ain't no two ways about it. It's an issue and it sucks. However, that doesn't stop me from enjoying my Mantra 1, but I have to see them for what they are and decide if it is worth the hassle or not. I decided it was, I found an alternative by putting my Mantra on PB washers and it is by far my favorite knife.

A lot of people are happy with the line of knives that have these issues, and a good bunch aren't. Slight dishing of the races for the knives in question(domino, dice, southard, mantra) is normal because of how they are designed, that doesn't mean it good, but normal. So ultimately I think it comes down to what your tolerances and expectations are. Some will put up with it, good for them, they will enjoy it for what it is. Some won't, and there is nothing wrong with that either.
 
We took apart a coworker’s Domino yesterday.

It had cupped washers.

We cleaned, lubed, and reassembled it.

Guess what?

It flips just fine. In fact, it’s very, very smooth.

Even with the cupped washers, the knife flips like it’s supposed to. After reading a lot about these washers, I’m convinced that it’s basically a non-issue. I’m no Spyderco fanboy; I do own a few of their knives, however. I also own Benchmade, Buck, and Zero Tolerance.

I believe Spyderco probably does more R&D than many other knife manufacturers.
 
GB940Rookie said:
What a jerk thing to say. Trying to get a free knife from Spyderco?
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You talkin' to me? ;) :)

You+talking+to+me.jpg
 
Cow51 said:
Instead of trying to downplay the dishing issue, I'm just going to say that there ain't no two ways about it. It's an issue and it sucks. However, that doesn't stop me from enjoying my Mantra 1, but I have to see them for what they are and decide if it is worth the hassle or not. I decided it was, I found an alternative by putting my Mantra on PB washers and it is by far my favorite knife.

A lot of people are happy with the line of knives that have these issues, and a good bunch aren't. Slight dishing of the races for the knives in question(domino, dice, southard, mantra) is normal because of how they are designed, that doesn't mean it good, but normal. So ultimately I think it comes down to what your tolerances and expectations are. Some will put up with it, good for them, they will enjoy it for what it is. Some won't, and there is nothing wrong with that either.
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After the Advocate, Spyderco got the message and reworked their bearing/washer design. I think all current models have the newer design.
 
AF said:
After the Advocate, Spyderco got the message and reworked their bearing/washer design. I think all current models have the newer design.
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I don't think it was a message at all. They had their best investigating the pivot and they of course ended up with quality improvement, and acted on it.
 
5-by-5 said:
I don't think it was a message at all. They had their best investigating the pivot and they of course ended up with quality improvement, and acted on it.
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My impression was that complaints arising from the Advocate spurred Spyderco to rework the design. No? Anyway, I think it was a needed improvement based on my experiences. Some flipped great but a few did not. A high-end flipper needs to flip well.
 
AF said:
After the Advocate, Spyderco got the message and reworked their bearing/washer design. I think all current models have the newer design.
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Are you talking about the C.Q.I. update used in the Mantra 3?
 
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