Curious, why bother with a cutting test with *insert brand name knife here*?

[Gaston444]

What can be wrong with a paper test before and after cutting something else? The way the paper is cut tells a lot about edge-holding, but not enough about blade geometry itself unfortunately.

For blade geometry, simply quoting the measured blade thickness immediately behind the edge bevel would go a long way towards clarifying things, but that is apparently beyond the scientific, educational and neuronal abilities of most blade reviewers apparently...

Not a very intellectual hobby I'm afraid...

Gaston

 

[Professor_Jack]

Whenever a video review of a knife starts with them cutting paper or listing the specs, I immediately stop watching the video because holy crap what a waste of my time.

I can take a crowbar and sharpen one of the ends to the point where it will slice paper. Such a pointless demonstration.

well... the problem there is I can think of several reasons to start a review that way.
"this is how the knife comes from the factory"
"Compare the sharpened knife to after other test cuts to demonstrate edge retention"
I mean... chill man.
Mifune says relax

 

[powernoodle]

So why the big deal?

97.4% of everything we do here, from "testing" to reviews to discussion to photography, is just an excuse to play with our knives. It fills in those countless hours in between the opportunities to actually cut stuff. We shouldn't take any of it too seriously.

 

[Monofletch]

Well that is to be expected on a forum where knife enthusiasts can be found in a high concentration. A lot of people here love steel, the properties of alloying, heat treating, cutting performance. Yes, to some people a knife bought at a gas station is just as good as a $240 ZT or a $1000 Emerson custom. Sadly that is not the case. We can ask the same question about guns, cars, clothing, and everything in between. Why do people buy Corvettes when a Ford Fiesta will work just as well? Because they like them, and everyone has a hobby.

Watch it buddy! I drive a Fiesta...a purple one at that! 40 mpg all day long!

 

[bodog]

Paper cutting tests just how sharp something is without making yourself look like you have mange or something. You can also get a feel for how the geometry will work. You can make a sharpened crowbar shave hair but the geometry is entirely wrong. You can't cut shapes into a piece of paper with a literal sharpened crowbar. That's just the beginning.

Doing it as a preliminary step after sharpening and before testing gives you a baseline. Then you cut a bunch of stuff. Then you go back to paper to feel for any edge deterioration. The edge will hang up pretty quick when there's a dent or roll in the apex.

Having said all that, the fast slicing of paper seems pretty pointless. I can sharpen a butter knife on a brick and get those kinds of results. It's when the guy doing the review slowly draws through the paper listening and feeling for any hangups and when he can push cut unsupported paper that 1) I know the dudes knife is adequately sharp and 2) the guy's sharpened enough knives to know what he's doing. Generally speaking. Then using the paper the same way, slow draw cutting and unsupported push cutting is a very good way to evaluate on video. If you know what to listen for you can hear the knife getting duller even if it can still draw cut.

For people interested in how well a steel performs stuff like that is valuable. It's really no different than shaving arm hair or whatever. If shown before, during, and after cutting in a way that actually shows what the edge is doing, it's really helpful. You just have to have some basic understanding of what is happening at the edge to get it. And the dude cutting the paper needs to understand why he's doing it and what he's trying to show. I'd rather look at an empty table and hear the paper instead of seeing the paper getting cut but unable to hear it.

A super sharp thin knife will cut paper with a whisper and the paper will just barely move. A thick knife will sound like it's ripping the paper during a draw cut. If there are small dents or dings in the edge you can hear the paper catch. If the geometry is good you can push cut circles and "s" shapes in the paper. If the geometry is screwed up you can't. These are just basic things people look for. If you don't like it or don't see why, you don't have to do it. People who look at edge retention and are critical of their own sharpening efforts need some kind of baseline media and paper is cheap and plentiful.

 

[Monofletch]

Great post Bodog!

 

[Camillus]

Even better are the feather stick tests that people do with 'survival' knives. This involves cutting shavings of a piece of wood, then saying 'look at this great feather stick'. I still completely fail to grasp what this test is intended to prove, other than the obvious fact the knife has a cutting edge.

 

[bodog]

Even better are the feather stick tests that people do with 'survival' knives. This involves cutting shavings of a piece of wood, then saying 'look at this great feather stick'. I still completely fail to grasp what this test is intended to prove, other than the obvious fact the knife has a cutting edge.

I don't get showing feather sticks specifically. What I do like to see is if the blade is made in a way that allows control over just how deep you want to cut, within reason. If a guy understands that that's what he's showing and he uses a feather stick as an example showing very deep cuts and very shallow cuts, then cool. And if you're showing that you can twist the knife out of a piece of wood without a chunk coming off the blade, also cool. I can see both of those things being important to guys who carve bowls and spoons and whatnot out in the woods.

If it's just a dude whittling some wood, then I don't get it either. I can do that with almost any knife. I actually made a crappy feather stick with a knife that had literally no edge after beating through concrete and hacking at a metal broom. It's in one of the reviews I posted.

 

[Surfingringo]

Depends on what one is trying to demonstrate. I would agree that if a reviewer is trying to say look at how great x knife or x steel is because it can be sharpened to cut paper then yeah, of course its kind of silly but they are having fun so whatever.

It can be a very relevant test though if you are trying to demonstrate how sharp a knife comes from the factory. Take a new Spyderco and a new gas station knife and a piece of paper can become an easy way to demonstrate the differences in factory sharpening.

 

[rcb2000]

I use the paper test as a preliminary test, like Bodog mentioned.
Then taking a cue from Murray Carter, take a piece of glossy magazine paper folded over so it creates a round bend, and then see if your blade will catch on it, that is another good test of sharpness in my opinion.

 

[craytab]

97.4% of everything we do here, from "testing" to reviews to discussion to photography, is just an excuse to play with our knives. It fills in those countless hours in between the opportunities to actually cut stuff. We shouldn't take any of it too seriously.

Yes. This^

 

[bld522]

Yep. Only thing I'd do is add "or buy stuff" to the end of powernoodle's second sentence.

 

[bodog]

Yes. This^

Considering a knife is really the only tool I'm almost never without and use them all the time I like for them to be pretty good. But I'm not a dude who hoards knives for the sake of hoarding knives so maybe my views are a little different. I'm more like a carpenter who just wants the best hammer he can afford. And who likes test what hammers would do best for him instead of going to Home Depot and buying whatever they have in stock.

I view this knife thing like a guitarist views his guitar. Sure maybe some guys like to collect the highest price guitars or old guitars or guitars from a specific company. Absolutely nothing wrong with it at all, but it's just a hobby. A dude who actually needs a guitar to accomplish his job and put bread on the table probably has a different outlook on what he wants from a guitar than the collectors do. He wants it to sound good, be comfortable, be at least somewhat affordable, and look cool enough where he's not ashamed to be seen with it. But sounding good is the highest priority where others have other priorities, like collectability or pure aesthetics over function. If I was a guitarist who liked custom guitars then I guess I'd probably want to hear from other guitarists and what they've found and why they like this guitar or guitar maker over this other one. I wouldn't really care what a collector has to say about it, even if they do occasionally pluck at the strings and tune them occasionally, not unless they really understand real world functionality, even if they're talking about a $10,000 custom made guitar made of the finest materials. What can they tell me that matters to me? That their guitar is pretty and it'll sit on a stand looking nice while they ponder what other guitar they're looking at buying? I mean, good for them and all, but it doesn't help me much.

And it's hard for a guitarist to film or photograph himself testing a guitar while he's on stage playing something. He would more likely go home and replicate some of the stuff he's seen that made him like or dislike a certain guitar.

I'm sure collectors that paid lots and lots of money for a guitar probably don't want someone saying the guitar they paid lots and lots of money for isn't all that good, just like a guitarist who knows a guitar sucks wouldn't want to hear from collectors about how great that crappy guitar is.

 

[Insipid Moniker]

This is from some time ago, but this cut a tater just fine.

Granted, for a load of potatoes, it would've taken much longer with the Busse than a knife thinner behind the edge, but a knife that is sharp and thick can do it just fine with technique and a little patience.

Yup, but a wicked thin gyuto will still blow it out of the water performing the same task, even if the gyuto is quite dull. And, honestly, if you're having to use a lot of patience and technique to cut a potato cleanly it's not doing it just fine. That's why potatoes make a good test, they're easy to cut, but how a knife cuts them, which is partly how quickly you can cut them with said knife, says a lot.

To be clear, I'm not bagging on Busse, but they don't design knives for cutting potatoes. Nothing wrong with that.

 

[bld522]

Considering a knife is really the only tool I'm almost never without and use them all the time I like for them to be pretty good. But I'm not a dude who hoards knives for the sake of hoarding knives so maybe my views are a little different. I'm more like a carpenter who just wants the best hammer he can afford. And who likes test what hammers would do best for him instead of going to Home Depot and buying whatever they have in stock.

I view this knife thing like a guitarist views his guitar. Sure maybe some guys like to collect the highest price guitars or old guitars or guitars from a specific company. Absolutely nothing wrong with it at all, but it's just a hobby. A dude who actually needs a guitar to accomplish his job and put bread on the table probably has a different outlook on what he wants from a guitar than the collectors do. He wants it to sound good, be comfortable, be at least somewhat affordable, and look cool enough where he's not ashamed to be seen with it. But sounding good is the highest priority where others have other priorities, like collectability or pure aesthetics over function. If I was a guitarist who liked custom guitars then I guess I'd probably want to hear from other guitarists and what they've found and why they like this guitar or guitar maker over this other one. I wouldn't really care what a collector has to say about it, even if they do occasionally pluck at the strings and tune them occasionally, not unless they really understand real world functionality, even if they're talking about a $10,000 custom made guitar made of the finest materials. What can they tell me that matters to me? That their guitar is pretty and it'll sit on a stand looking nice while they ponder what other guitar they're looking at buying? I mean, good for them and all, but it doesn't help me much.

And it's hard for a guitarist to film or photograph himself testing a guitar while he's on stage playing something. He would more likely go home and replicate some of the stuff he's seen that made him like or dislike a certain guitar.

I'm sure collectors that paid lots and lots of money for a guitar probably don't want someone saying the guitar they paid lots and lots of money for isn't all that good, just like a guitarist who knows a guitar sucks wouldn't want to hear from collectors about how great that crappy guitar is.

Excellent post. Some folks who collect guitars may only be hobbyists, but they're devoted to their hobbies. They study up on what makes one guitar better than another . . . usually from people who have played them. They then become repositories of useful information that those who actually play guitars for a living have little time to research on their own.

I find value in the feedback I receive from everyone who has devoted themselves to the study, use and collectibility of knives. YMMV.

 

[bodog]

Excellent post. Some folks who collect guitars may only be hobbyists, but they're devoted to their hobbies. They study up on what makes one guitar better than another . . . usually from people who have played them. They then become repositories of useful information that those who actually play guitars for a living have little time to research on their own.

I find value in the feedback I receive from everyone who has devoted themselves to the study, use and collectibility of knives. YMMV.

Absolutely

 

[Cobalt]

I am sure it has been said many times, cutting paper only shows how good of an edge was put on a blade. Any blade can slice paper if sharpened properly. Hell an axe can as well. Using paper cutting to test edge loss is a good idea. For example you cut rope. After 50 cuts, you slice paper, after 100 cuts you slice paper, and so on and son, until you can't slice paper any more. Why? because you can continue to cut rope with a thin blade even after it has dulled past the point it will slice paper. So the geometry of the thin blade gives you a false test when you compare it to a thicker blade. This is where paper is useful.

 

[Duane Sanders]

Excellent post. Some folks who collect guitars may only be hobbyists, but they're devoted to their hobbies. They study up on what makes one guitar better than another . . . usually from people who have played them. They then become repositories of useful information that those who actually play guitars for a living have little time to research on their own.

I find value in the feedback I receive from everyone who has devoted themselves to the study, use and collectibility of knives. YMMV.

The people who make real money with guitars get paid to use brand Xs guitar. The player don't care, they're getting paid to smile and pose for the cameras with them. What you don't see is when they get home they rip out the insides and outsides and make them the guitar they want.

People who make a living that relies on a knife as a tool can't buy a knife and find one with the perfect blade, geometry, handle and so on. Only to know that the steel it comes in is very reliable at chipping rapidly. That knife user might need that knife to shave burs from copper, aluminum, PVC and other materials for last second fit and finish of pipes or conduit.

They aren't going to be able to easily make or buy a blade in the right steel then slap it on after the purchase. Where as the collector would be perfectly fine with highly polished 3cr13mov as much as they would S30V if all they do is slice paper and look at them. I think that's more what the OP is getting at.

 

[bld522]

. . . where as the collector would be perfectly fine with highly polished 3cr13mov as much as they would S30V if all they do is slice paper and look at them. I think that's more what the OP is getting at.

Perhaps. But among the collectors on this forum, I doubt you'd find many of the kind you referred to in your post. I know I wouldn't be satisfied, and I'm definitely more of a collector than a user.

I've said it before and I'll say it again. Those who use knives should count their blessings for the collectors among us. If it weren't for the collectors, the users would have far fewer knives to choose from.

 

[Duane Sanders]

Perhaps. But among the collectors on this forum, I doubt you'd find many of the kind you referred to in your post. I know I wouldn't, and I'm definitely more of a collector than a user.

Maybe not here, but I bet you do have an idea of how many SMKW "fantasy" blades people collect are. One side thinks, who collects $50.00 plus knives, then there is the collectors who think S30V is a low end steel.

No one is right and no one is wrong but there are more "collectors" of SMKW blades than there is of what is considered a collecting knife here. It's just the tunnel vision members here get. They think only high end premiums steel knives costing multiple hundreds to multiple thousands of dollars are collecting knives. The SMKW collectors have a completely different view and as tough as it may be to accept, them cheap blades slice paper as vigorously as the premium models that get collected. The point I believe the OP was making.