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averageguy said:
Yes.
I now have heard from two directors of the Guild and both interpret the rules to mean that CNC machines are ok.
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Custom = Handmade?
- Thread starter averageguy
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Yes.
I now have heard from two directors of the Guild and both interpret the rules to mean that CNC machines are ok.
averageguy
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Test - which one is handmade?
Edited: I just saw the last post - so I guess it's OK. But it sure doesn't sync with what I interpret handmade to mean.
Edited: I just saw the last post - so I guess it's OK. But it sure doesn't sync with what I interpret handmade to mean.
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I understand what you are saying and agree that if a CNC machine is used to make a knife then it is not handmade. What if the machine is used to shape the blades and the rest of the work is done by hand? I know makers that have the blades for their knives cut by helpers/apprentices.
What I think the Knifemakers' Guild has done is realize that knifemakers are going to use whatever tools they can to do the job more efficiently. If they have rules that outlaw the use of CNC machines then they stand a chance of alienating what is sure to be a growing segment of their members.
To me, what it all comes down to is that if I want a totally handmade knife, I can get one. There are hundreds of makers that will make me a knife this way. If I am willing to pay a higher price then many of the makers that use CNC will build me a knife by hand as well. If I want a true one of a kind then it is not likely that CNC is going to be used to make this knife (maybe the pivot or other parts that are used on all or most of the maker's knives), because programing takes too long to be beneficial when only making one knife. There are very few makers that use CNC to create one ofs.
What I think the Knifemakers' Guild has done is realize that knifemakers are going to use whatever tools they can to do the job more efficiently. If they have rules that outlaw the use of CNC machines then they stand a chance of alienating what is sure to be a growing segment of their members.
To me, what it all comes down to is that if I want a totally handmade knife, I can get one. There are hundreds of makers that will make me a knife this way. If I am willing to pay a higher price then many of the makers that use CNC will build me a knife by hand as well. If I want a true one of a kind then it is not likely that CNC is going to be used to make this knife (maybe the pivot or other parts that are used on all or most of the maker's knives), because programing takes too long to be beneficial when only making one knife. There are very few makers that use CNC to create one ofs.
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Just have to throw one more thing into the works here. 
I have a Pacific Cutlery Balisong that came from thier custom shop. Here are some generally known facts (correct as far as I am told).
1. The blade was hand ground by Jody Samson. I was told this also, "Jody ground that model with an 6" contact wheel on the working edge, and a 2" contact wheel (using the edge) for the true false edge on top. The top edge is always sharpened on those if Jody did them, unless a specific customer ordered one with a swedge instead of a true false edge."
2. The skeletonized handles were milled by a Mr. Jim Hall (so I've been told).
3. The knife was made to order by the customer that originally ordered it.
So, by all definitions, is this a custom (ordered to spec), handmade (the blade was done by hand), or a production piece (it was through a division of a production knife company).
I have a Pacific Cutlery Balisong that came from thier custom shop. Here are some generally known facts (correct as far as I am told).
1. The blade was hand ground by Jody Samson. I was told this also, "Jody ground that model with an 6" contact wheel on the working edge, and a 2" contact wheel (using the edge) for the true false edge on top. The top edge is always sharpened on those if Jody did them, unless a specific customer ordered one with a swedge instead of a true false edge."
2. The skeletonized handles were milled by a Mr. Jim Hall (so I've been told).
3. The knife was made to order by the customer that originally ordered it.
So, by all definitions, is this a custom (ordered to spec), handmade (the blade was done by hand), or a production piece (it was through a division of a production knife company).
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By all definitions, no. By some definitions, yes.
This debate will continue to rage here and elsewhere and will never go away - the rapid advances in technology in recent years has clouded the issue somewhat and further advances will cloud the debate even more so. It is not so long ago that the debate centered around the use of power saws and grinders even before we had dreamt of CNC machines. There is still a school of opinion that argues that a true hand-made knife must be forged and not made by the stock removal method.
But, when it comes down to it we the customers will determine the issue through our purchasing power. For me if I want to buy a "handmade" knife it will be one that meets my requirement as spelt out previously - for others they will buy by way of their own definition. It would be my hope that the invasion of technology does not see the demise of the hand-made knife. I also believe and hope that through forums like this that we able to point to those individuals that are prepared to rip-off the system by mis-labelling their products hand-made when the only thing done by hand was the sharpening process.
It would be nice if we were able to come up with a set of terms that defined what was what as there is a fair bit of confusion amongst buyers esp. novices - not only are the terms hand-made and custom open to interpretation we also have terms such as:
hand finished
hand crafted
custom made
customized
to deal with.
But, when it comes down to it we the customers will determine the issue through our purchasing power. For me if I want to buy a "handmade" knife it will be one that meets my requirement as spelt out previously - for others they will buy by way of their own definition. It would be my hope that the invasion of technology does not see the demise of the hand-made knife. I also believe and hope that through forums like this that we able to point to those individuals that are prepared to rip-off the system by mis-labelling their products hand-made when the only thing done by hand was the sharpening process.
It would be nice if we were able to come up with a set of terms that defined what was what as there is a fair bit of confusion amongst buyers esp. novices - not only are the terms hand-made and custom open to interpretation we also have terms such as:
hand finished
hand crafted
custom made
customized
to deal with.
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- May 9, 2000
- Messages
- 29,205
For those that are interested, I just got an answer from the third and last director of the Knifemakers' Guild that I contacted. This answer was more definitive. He stated that CNC machines are allowed as long as they are owned by the maker and they are in his shop.
It really doesn't matter to me what is or isn't considered a custom knife by others. There is a certain way I want my knives made and as long as I can get them made that way the rest really doesn't amount to a hill of beans.
It really doesn't matter to me what is or isn't considered a custom knife by others. There is a certain way I want my knives made and as long as I can get them made that way the rest really doesn't amount to a hill of beans.