Thanks for the wave.
I tend to think most dealers would just interact directly.
Anyway, you certainly have some strong opinions on things you don't understand. Maybe we should talk about your business.
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Custom knife dealers ...why do we need them???
- Thread starter Big_E
- Start date
Anyway, you certainly have some strong opinions on things you don't understand. Maybe we should talk about your business.
You're correct. I don't buy $30 custom knives.
Nice to meet you.
For a moment there I was under the impression I was in a conversation involving well thought, meaningful opinions.
- Joined
- Jan 3, 2013
- Messages
- 5,713
Some people/companies don't want to be in the "sales" business.... for example a knife maker may want to make knives, but doesn't want the headache of "selling" knives. Dealers makes sense so the knife maker can concentrate on making knives instead of taking calls, shipping to customers, returns, marketing.... blah blah blah.
It's really simple.
It's really simple.
Not ONE dealer was singled out in my post...not ONE. You made and are making it more personal. I can only assume I struck a cord ......
There are many dealers that provide stock photos of wood grain...many. Not sure why you thought it was directed at you based on the post. You may want to reconsider singling yourself out...odd to do.
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The custom knife game is a frustrating one at times. I do agree with one thing though, I really wish makers would put at least the starting price of their knives on their websites. I know the the price goes up depending on the materials used, that's to be expected. I just hate looking at a custom knife makers page and thinking something looks cool and then having to track down a dealer who has sold their knives (at a mark up price of course) or a forum post selling one (at a markup price of course) to get an idea of the price range. Also I don't want to bother a custom maker and make inquiries when there is almost no chance I will actually be able to afford one of their knives anyways, that just seems like a douche thing to do imo.
A custom knife is a knife that is made to the exact specifications of the customer, but I know what you mean.
Even the most hardcore knife enthusiast might miss out on a bunch of knives if there weren't any dealer sites -- dealers allow anyone to browse their site, and hundreds, even thousands of different custom makers and knives. Sure, you could argue that a directory with pictures of knives from various makers would be nice, but it wouldn't be the same as a store you can buy from, and it wouldn't result in nearly the same amount of custom maker and knife knowledge to most users. Without dealers, so many knife makers would most likely go unnoticed, because people would simply not hear about them. Getting the products into the customers hand would only go so far -- even if a couple of customers bought hundreds of new knives every month or week and talked about them (Ie, so they'd "advertise" various different knives, and custom makers.), getting their viewers from being interested in any specific knife out of all those, and onto the custom makers site, to making a buy, would be a significantly more complicated process than the current process; directly browsing a site with all those knives directly for sale.
It'd also cause a bit of information overload, since, as opposed to simply browsing a site for the knives, people would have to browse all those reviews, pick a knife, find the site address for the custom maker, and either buy it from the custom makers site or email the custom maker.
I think the custom makers in question are responsible for this, though, not the sellers. They shouldn't get back ordered for several years, they shouldn't sell in bulk at a deep discount (If they can, then this would mean that they are actually production knives, and shouldn't command a premium price.). Of course, in some cases this is completely understandable -- they need to generate some P.R and get sales. But if you're back ordered, there's no reason why you should do so. I think that, in most cases, there should be a 1 knife per customer rule. In any case, they shouldn't prioritize bulk orders, or show orders, if they are backlogged. If indeed they are backlogged, they should, in most cases (And in my opinion, of course.), focus on whoever ordered first.
However, most of this usually only applies to already well-established custom makers.
So.. yeah, custom knife dealers are, basically, necessary. They can be good, or bad. Custom makers don't have to sell anything to them, but it can be easier to sell in bulk to a single person/company. But this is a choice made by the individual custom makers. If they are backed up for several years and suddenly a bunch of knives appear on a custom knife dealer site, keep in mind that the custom knife maker might have ordered a long time ago. But this is why I think that custom knife makers (Who are starting to see high volume; as in, by the time one order is filled, he/she moves directly on to the next order, for a certain period of time.) should have a 1 knife per customer rule.
Even the most hardcore knife enthusiast might miss out on a bunch of knives if there weren't any dealer sites -- dealers allow anyone to browse their site, and hundreds, even thousands of different custom makers and knives. Sure, you could argue that a directory with pictures of knives from various makers would be nice, but it wouldn't be the same as a store you can buy from, and it wouldn't result in nearly the same amount of custom maker and knife knowledge to most users. Without dealers, so many knife makers would most likely go unnoticed, because people would simply not hear about them. Getting the products into the customers hand would only go so far -- even if a couple of customers bought hundreds of new knives every month or week and talked about them (Ie, so they'd "advertise" various different knives, and custom makers.), getting their viewers from being interested in any specific knife out of all those, and onto the custom makers site, to making a buy, would be a significantly more complicated process than the current process; directly browsing a site with all those knives directly for sale.
It'd also cause a bit of information overload, since, as opposed to simply browsing a site for the knives, people would have to browse all those reviews, pick a knife, find the site address for the custom maker, and either buy it from the custom makers site or email the custom maker.
I think the custom makers in question are responsible for this, though, not the sellers. They shouldn't get back ordered for several years, they shouldn't sell in bulk at a deep discount (If they can, then this would mean that they are actually production knives, and shouldn't command a premium price.). Of course, in some cases this is completely understandable -- they need to generate some P.R and get sales. But if you're back ordered, there's no reason why you should do so. I think that, in most cases, there should be a 1 knife per customer rule. In any case, they shouldn't prioritize bulk orders, or show orders, if they are backlogged. If indeed they are backlogged, they should, in most cases (And in my opinion, of course.), focus on whoever ordered first.
However, most of this usually only applies to already well-established custom makers.
So.. yeah, custom knife dealers are, basically, necessary. They can be good, or bad. Custom makers don't have to sell anything to them, but it can be easier to sell in bulk to a single person/company. But this is a choice made by the individual custom makers. If they are backed up for several years and suddenly a bunch of knives appear on a custom knife dealer site, keep in mind that the custom knife maker might have ordered a long time ago. But this is why I think that custom knife makers (Who are starting to see high volume; as in, by the time one order is filled, he/she moves directly on to the next order, for a certain period of time.) should have a 1 knife per customer rule.
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Nope, not that hard to do.
But when I have a drawer full of customs that I was able to purchase from makers who seemed to care about their potential customers by not making them hunt around for an hour for info as to how to purchase one of their knives on the site and haven't the sense to produce a user friendly webpage that makes it easy to make a purchase or get all the info on the product without mail and a mystery phone call like it's the '50's again...I'm probably going to buy from the one whom I can see clearly cares about his customers.
THEN we'll do the mail and phone calls, do the bonding thing you talk about and get down to specifics of the piece.
Too many other great knives out there to waste the time on a dealer who is clueless about how awkward his site is for potential customers and probably never entered it from a customer's point of view himself.
You hit it right on the nose, Sir: I'm not going to buy from someone who thinks it's more important to spend time on things other than making buying from him an easy and pleasant experience for a customer.
And yeah, there's a reason that production knives are so easy to get simply. They're marketed by smart business people who know how to sell their products via an easy customer-friendly website. More importantly, they know what a customer IS and aren't delusional that the whole world wants what they have and can by God try to hunt THEM down. Sort of like the guy there in post #13 above who decided he knows my financial status when he probably hasn't removed the wheels and tires on his new house yet.
Who the heck would wade through all that garbage, you??
Yes, not "one." But obviously it's a group you consider us a part of.
Yes, you struck a cord. Maybe I'll start arguing for the eradication of watch repair and we'll see if you're similarly bewildered.
Not exactly. I'll say this: I think we provide a valuable service by exposing large audiences to a maker's products and handling sales logistics. Some makers we financially back which allows them to bring their products to market. Some makers don't need that exposure or support and we understand (and it's not a crime to ask if we can still carry their products). No maker is forced to deal with us and many who achieved a sort of "celebrity" status do move to a more customer direct sales approach. In general I think those who choose to work with us are pleased. And it's symbiotic relationship- custom knives help our store's image, generate revenue and we value the many friendships we have made over the years.
Rival1314
Knifemaker / Craftsman / Service Provider
- Joined
- Aug 17, 2012
- Messages
- 1,424
Different makers are at dirrerent points in their careers and business offerings. I dont yet have a site & "force" my customers to reach out to me. Most of my customers dont seem to mind as it keeps my overhead down. There are alot of 'I' statements in your opinions, most makers arent thinking of you. They are doing their best to provide a quality product at a good price. if thats inconvenient you are more than welcome to try other makers. Just dont assume that is a reflection of customer service or respect for customers. Its called business. Best of luck to you as you will likely never do business with me either....that doesnt bother me a bit.
Oh, if they'd spent an hour on a site trying to figure out how to start a transaction with you only to discover in a little side-note that you have to have a phone call to give any infomation on your product, they'd mind.
I find most of them DO care about me. They know what a CUSTOMER is. That surprises you doesn't it?
It IS a reflection of customer service and respect for a customer. You kidding me???? Really???
Good thing you aren't botherable. After what you've just posted me, customers will be beating down your door. :yawn:
Locutus D'Borg
Platinum Member
- Joined
- Dec 1, 2012
- Messages
- 5,222
I have purchased two customs from dealers. Why? Because the makers' books were closed, and there was a 2 year wait for people on their lists. So I paid extra to get brand new customs immediately, and from makers that I admired. Dealers provide a service. You need not use them.
And as to what constitutes a custom: that horse has been beat to death.
And as to what constitutes a custom: that horse has been beat to death.
1AbominAble1
Gold Member
- Joined
- Jul 26, 2010
- Messages
- 2,427
It's obvious to anybody that's truly interested in this topic that it could generate hundreds of pages of replies and there'd still be people on both sides of the argument, although I think that most would fall on the "who needs them" side due to the fact that so many of us are sick of getting gouged by "dealers" to buy a "custom" piece.
Wouldn't the knives be more readily available directly from the dealer if he didn't have large orders from the dealers, possibly. Would you be able to get the exact knife you want embellished exactly like you want for less money, definitely!
Not all makers would be able to maintain that sort of business nor would they all be able to manage that business while making knives but I believe that most of the truly custom knife makers that produce low quantities wouldn't notice much difference- they have to take the call from the dealers too don't they?
It'd be the same with the show lotteries that are obviously rigged so that so many makers can obtain pieces at discounted prices to sell for an obscene mark up. Do I need that help, NO! I was at the show too and couldn't get a knife that I wanted, not a single one, but, I saw one unnamed dealer get a half dozen of the 60 or so that we're sold in the "lottery". An anomaly you say, I say BS. I saw it at the same show at the only other lottery I attended. The maker had nine knives for sale, one "dealer" ended up with 5 of them. It was a one ticket per knife drawing, so a maximum of nine tickets per person with one chance at each knife, the "dealer" had more than a hundred tickets hanging from his hands and the maker did nothing to abide by his own lottery rules or to discourage the "dealer" from cheating in such a heinous and obvious way. All 5 knives were later for sale at a steep increase-STEEP! Did I need that help, NO! I would've liked an honest chance at a winning ticket and if I won to buy it directly from the maker for a more personal experience.
I'll quit ranting now even though I haven't made most of my points, but not before I say that calling Big E out by his real name and questioning his business was a dirtbag move!
By the way, his business is not even remotely close to the same thing as being a dealer since he actually works on his merchandise providing repairs and upgrades to an item that'd already been purchased by a customer from somebody else. If the dealers here were knife makers it'd be apples to apples but they're not, if they were this thread wouldn't exist, nor would his thought provoking argument that most dealers are unnecessary.
Wouldn't the knives be more readily available directly from the dealer if he didn't have large orders from the dealers, possibly. Would you be able to get the exact knife you want embellished exactly like you want for less money, definitely!
Not all makers would be able to maintain that sort of business nor would they all be able to manage that business while making knives but I believe that most of the truly custom knife makers that produce low quantities wouldn't notice much difference- they have to take the call from the dealers too don't they?
It'd be the same with the show lotteries that are obviously rigged so that so many makers can obtain pieces at discounted prices to sell for an obscene mark up. Do I need that help, NO! I was at the show too and couldn't get a knife that I wanted, not a single one, but, I saw one unnamed dealer get a half dozen of the 60 or so that we're sold in the "lottery". An anomaly you say, I say BS. I saw it at the same show at the only other lottery I attended. The maker had nine knives for sale, one "dealer" ended up with 5 of them. It was a one ticket per knife drawing, so a maximum of nine tickets per person with one chance at each knife, the "dealer" had more than a hundred tickets hanging from his hands and the maker did nothing to abide by his own lottery rules or to discourage the "dealer" from cheating in such a heinous and obvious way. All 5 knives were later for sale at a steep increase-STEEP! Did I need that help, NO! I would've liked an honest chance at a winning ticket and if I won to buy it directly from the maker for a more personal experience.
I'll quit ranting now even though I haven't made most of my points, but not before I say that calling Big E out by his real name and questioning his business was a dirtbag move!
By the way, his business is not even remotely close to the same thing as being a dealer since he actually works on his merchandise providing repairs and upgrades to an item that'd already been purchased by a customer from somebody else. If the dealers here were knife makers it'd be apples to apples but they're not, if they were this thread wouldn't exist, nor would his thought provoking argument that most dealers are unnecessary.
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When will I learn not to argue with the Internet. No one wins 
Oh well...
Oh well...
I doubt most dealers disclose margins- So I don't know how people determine what constitutes gouging. And, obviously, no one has to buy anything from a dealer. All that aside, I understand your position based on what you have seen.
If you want to criticize the business practices of others you better make sure your ducks are in a row.
Well we're talking about apples and oranges, then.
I'd rather buy from a knifemaker that puts his quality and effort into his art; if I end up making the slightest bit of effort - so be it. I don't want to buy from only knifemakers that stand on the side of the road and shout for my attention until I stop, then hurriedly make a knife on the table behind them.
You can like your apples, and I'll like my oranges.