Custom Knife Makers: Disasters

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fracmeister

fracmeister

Petroleum Engineer
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Few of the many custom knife makers make it to the point where their knives appreciate for decades. Hard to say whose knives selling now will even return their purchase prices in a decade. Since I buy what I like rather than as "investments" I am not worried, but one day the knives I own are likely to be sold.

I am curious as to who the "worst" investments have been. You know, some knife maker who made knives that for some time period sold at a relatively high price for the time but for whatever reason are a huge drag on the market. For the present discussion I'd like to eliminate actual criminals (definition: people who deliberately took customers money with essentially no intent of delivering a product). Just focus on knifemakers whose products fell WAY out of favor with the buying public. And maybe your suggestions as to why.


(BTW, this evolved from a discussion I was having about modern art. There are gobs of painters and sculpters this happens to and many are simply the victims of changing tastes. I can easily envisage a new technology or style passing someone by...I offer this only as evidence that I don't intend this in the "troll" vein)
 
Hi Nifrand,

I believe they would fall into the category of "criminals".

Hi Fracmeister, great subject. However, you have a curious comment:

"Since I buy what I like rather than as "investments" I am not worried, but one day the knives I own are likely to be sold."

While you are not worried, you still show concern about the final selling price of the knives. The fact you started this thread shows you have some concern about the final selling price (of those that sell). You are joing an every growing group of collectors "who buy what they like" but are starting to be a little concerned about their knives holding their value.

Some of the big name makers in the Mid-80's to early 90's whose knives sold for thousands of dollars are starting to show up in the aftermarket for less than half price.

It appears that it is not so much changing tastes as it is lack of continuous advertising and staying active in the current knife market.
 
Sure, I would like to be able to sell (if I wanted to) and recoup most of this money. But I do just want to not have the disastrous occur.
 
Being new on the custom knife side, while I buy what I like, I also view it as an investment and would like to see a knife hold its value if not increase in value. I asked the question at a seminar at blade of what names two well known purveyors bought and then actually went to their tables to see their stock. It gave me a good idea of whose knives to look for and the selling prices.
 
ALL custom Knives should come with the Government warning: "Your investment may go down as well as up".

Even with the most sort after and collected makers, powers outside of your control can put you downside if you don't do your homework! (i Wonder Where i Got that from! :D) Even with good homework external factors can take hold that no one could predict!

You never know what is going to happen in a Knifemakers life, they are human and not self perpetuating corporate Brands, therefore the potential for volatility is greater. For me that is quickly becoming the most interesting aspect of the custom knife scene, and really what it is all about - it becomes an exercise in studying form - even the experts get it wrong sometimes!

If you want to protect yourself from this volatility you can do so by having a broad range of makers and styles in your collection - thats how the purveyors protect themselves - that, and in some cases, a vast wealth of knowledge and experience!

Disasaters ... not really (YET!), I have had one or two disappointments, but they are all my own fault, not enough homework :D But I liked them when I bought them!

Stephen
 
If you follow Dave Ellis' buying patterns, you will NOT lose money!!! :eek:


However, I would probably never be able to afford ONE of the knives that he gets on a regular basis!!! :p
 
Hi Tom,

Dave is not a collector he is an investor. He owns knives from very few makers.

Nothing wrong with that, however most people fall into the "buy what you like category".

That being said, some of the Emersons he bought, he probably waited to long to get a the big return he is looking for. THe majority of the main buyers either have everything they want or have moved on to makers like Onion. Couple that with the huge output now being made by Emerson, his prices have been steadily dropping from a high about 4-5 years ago. You can sill make 20% on a new knife in the aftermarket (which is good) but it is not like it used to be.

Supply and demand can be both harmful and helpful both in the short and long term.

WWG
 
I'd have to agree with nifrand and Keith !


And would like to add. . . . .Allen Blade.
 
I think there's a question of timing too. For example, I have collected Don Fogg for several years now. The prices his stuff fetches is about as high as I've known it (although it might have been higher further back). From where they are now, are they going up or down? No one knows, but if they're going down I will have missed on the opportunity, 'cause I ain't selling... ;)
 
Another name that has moved to the "Infamous" list...Steve Filicietti.

He was an exceptional bargain, then the prices went up. Then the deposits and full payments were sent and then Steve stopped making knives. If not stopped then doing it very slooooooooowwwwwwwly.

Oddly enough people seem annoyed with this type of maker. It has a tendency to hurt the sales of their knives in the aftermarket.

WWG
 
I'm concerned too, but I have a simple rule which I follow about 90% of the time when buying a new knife: I'll generally only buy something that I would eventually carry. That's probably why my collection is pretty much all tactical. I've been buying some "dressier" stuff lately, but worst comes to worst, I could always take it out of the house so to speak. I always buy knives that I like, first and foremost. I'm not buying knives to "make" money, I'm in it for the "passion of knives", but getting a few extra $ is a nice added benefit if you make some smart choices. It makes it all the more easier to pay for that next one! Truth be told, out of my 50+ customs, there's a few that I'm just dying to put in my pocket, but I'm thinking I'm better off keeping them "mint" for resale one day.
 
HI Schluterc:

Ah, another closet investor, quote:

"I'm not buying knives to "make" money, I'm in it for the "passion of knives", but getting a few extra $ is a nice added benefit if you make some smart choices."

Im not buying knives to make money, however if I make some smart choices and I don't carry them, then I should be able to resell them with the nice added benefit of making a few extra dollars. Sounds like an investor talking! :D

Choosing the right knife, especially between $500 and $1000 can be very difficult. With $650 - $850 generally being "no mans land" especially for folders.

As Stephen wrote, do you homework. Check with other collectors who have similar tastes as you. Check the aftermarket and see how the makers knives hold. Try to get a grasp on a, as they say in numismatics "population report" as to how many knives the maker is producing annually. Material costs, construction technique(s), is there going to be an exact copy of the knife from a factory, as well you should check with hdwrlover as to what the well known purveyors have to say.

This may narrow your focus to half a dozen knives, then buy the one you like best. If you invest, er I mean collect the right knives you may even make a few bucks.

WWG
 
GigOne said:
I'd have to agree with nifrand and Keith !


And would like to add. . . . .Allen Blade.
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Funny thing is, I have 3 of Allen Blades knives and I like them all. I just have to come to the realization that I'll never be able to sell them for anything. Oh, and I didn't get them from him either.
 
Bill Abbott- Former Vietnam Army Vet, recommended by a bro, who was a LURP in country, turned out to be a heavy, ugly kitchen knife lookin thing that almost got me laughed out of the NY Custom Knife show, it was somewhat expensive as well.
Ron Cameron-Reminds me of Randall Gilbreath-He was out there for a while, but is not following through with the self-promotion thing/producing of knives/working with purveyors. DDITW.
Keith Coleman-Not sure what happened with that guy, but no one seems to know who he is, and I thought that his stuff was a sure bet back in 1995.
Harold Corby-The guy makes some really super duper primo knives, but when I was an active dealer back in 1992-1996, I got 5 excellent knives from Harold, and we still have 4 of them. Just not sure why that is.
R.B. Johnson-Reasonably nice knives, NO ONE seems to be interested in it. Gary Shaw said he was a good buy when he was with us, but as I move about the knife world, I REALLY think that it is model specific.
Ralph Turnbull-Funny you should ask about that, Nathan, but he is not/has not done a lot for me, and he does not really seem to care.
Mark Wahlster-Made some really nice knives but he did NO ticket punching/show attending/advertising that I know about, and subsequently his stuff was worth bupkiss.

That is all I can think of in the last 20 years.
There are makers that I have that no one knows about, but I got into the knives for so little that I will definitely not get skunked.

Best Regards,

STeven Garsson
 
WoodWorkGhost, I was "surprised" to see Steve Filicietti drop out of making knives as it would seem that he finally hit the notariety point where he could get paid a lot better than he had for the years "before discovery" etc, odd, leaving when you're getting paid better and in demand.

But you hit on something I had always wondered about with Steve, since I'd planned on ordering something directly with him (if possible) but he was "gone" by then, did he really actually drop out of the picture while holding deposits?

As I realized I couldn't order from him, I wondered what happened with the guys who did order from him towards the end. Like Jerry Hossom said, he'll deliver where he has to deliver but didn't take a bunch of deposits, I've wondered what Filicietti's scene was. I love his stuff, Jerry Hossom's too LOL.

Frank H.
 
Keith Coleman-Not sure what happened with that guy, but no one seems to know who he is, and I thought that his stuff was a sure bet back in 1995.
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I always thought the same thing. His knives are so well finished and often used nice woods. I think because I never saw a "grayturd" except for LDC come out of his shop-they were always polished with ironwood usually that he wasn't considered a "tactical" maker.

I would have to put C. Morris in the same boat.

One thing for sure is that this business is seasonal, especially Ebay.
I have sold and tried to sell some nice pieces at giveaway prices on the 'bay lately and there were no biters. This fall I bet that will change.
 
Anthony Lombardo said:
I would have to put C. Morris in the same boat.
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I just sold a tactical C.H. Morris, and did not lose any money. Charlie makes great knives, made better ones before he got sick, but dealers STILL know who he is, and anyone looking for a top-notch EDC from a different name goes for the Morris's.

His work is up there with any of the "B" list makers, and there are a whole heck of a lot of them on the list. I will by a right-priced Morris that I like any day of the week.

Best Regards,

STeven Garsson
 
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