Custom Knife Makers: Disasters

Status
Not open for further replies.
There a lot of different facets to the custom market. Some I pretend to understand, some I don't.

The one market I know nothing about is high end autos. There seem to be alot for sale on some purveyor sites and I'm sure there are dealers without sites. It seems to me there would be a very small collector base for $3000 + autos, some of the makers I've not even heard of before, amd I've been collecting customs for 17 years!

I'm sure I have few clunkers but I've trimmed my buying down to well known, established makers.

I've got a nice Stag hunter for sale by a well known, highly repected MS and there is absolutely no interest. Do I see a trend?


Win
 
This is an amazingly interesting thread, I hope that it continues, because I am learning a lot. I don't really expect it to be applicable knowledge, because I don't look at my knives as an investment--(I just buy 'em if I like 'em, and that includes painstaking, custom orders). Still, it says a lot about changing styles over time, and how other collectors tastes change. Thanks.
 
Hi Frank,

My understanding is that Steve is now making Gun Stocks. At this point he has entered the Steve Corkum and Jack Crain realm. There is still some interest, but under no circumstances send them any money.

Hi Anthony,

Keith Coleman was a victim of his own stupidity or greed (you get to choose). The LDC-107 which Keith was selected to make was not a "Grey ****". Grey Turds are knives that look like the Sebenza, just a grey bead blast finish on the titanium.

Coleman decided that making fifty knives for LDC wasn't enough of an order. So he decided to make his own version and was selling it at the same time. Oddly enough he was surprised when he was fired. Bob Neal and Les Robertson the owners of LDC Custom Knives and Purveyors as well. In addition to not selling any more of Coleman's LDC knives, they stopped selling Coleman knives altogether. It does not help your sales when the top two Tactical Folder dealers at the time are not carrying your knives.

Im sure that was only a small part of the equation. It was probably more than just his lack of integrity.

As for Charlie Morris, he had to stop making knives to take care of his mother who had multi-health problems. After she passed away he started making knives again, then he was unfortunate enough to start having health problems as well.

Charlie is an extremly talented knife maker. He gives you a lot of knife for the money.

It is amazing as to how much "stuff" goes on behind the scenes. This adds to the difficulty of avoiding a disaster as much as it does utilizing knives as investments.

WWG
 
Almost every knife that I made money on I now regret selling. Johan Gustaffson, Frank Centofante, and another one I am tooooo embarassed to admit. But I also made money on the only Keith Coleman knife I ever had. I guess there is always the exception that proves the rule, eh?

I probably have as many Ralph Turnbull knives as anyone and am quite happy with them. I guess I have gotten about half of them fom him and half on the aftermarket -- I'd be surprised if I paid more than 80% of the original price on the aftermarket knives. Some less. Not early Johan Gustaffson numbers, but not a train wreck.

Of course the Gustaffson I bought for 600 and sold for 900 is selling new for 1500 now. The guy who tries to sell that in 5 years wil either get 1800 or 800. "Forecasting is difficult, especially when it is about the future..."
 
I see a trend in my auto collecting.I used to buy any auto from any maker.
I am currently moving some stuff around and cannot give some of my custom autos away.I don't know if the new guys don't know who some of the makers are or what.Trades are doing well with them though.
Randy
 
nifrand said:
I see a trend in my auto collecting.I used to buy any auto from any maker.
I am currently moving some stuff around and cannot give some of my custom autos away.I don't know if the new guys don't know who some of the makers are or what.Trades are doing well with them though.
Randy
Click to expand...
Make me a good trade deal on that Reif auto with the Rados Damascus??? ;)
 
I'm of the belief that if you buy "quality" it will always be saleable. Whether you get your money out of it or just enjoy it for many years is the hard question. If you want to make money as a dealer you better be buying in quantity at a wholesale price.

I don't know of any quality makers who have really "tanked".

If you want to make money stick with "names" but hold onto your wallet and be sure you have good appraisals.

Guys like Loveless, Fowler, etc. will probably never see a decline in the price of their knives and who knows what will happen to the prices once they are gone.. They are like old Parker shotguns or Colt pistols or early Sheffield Bowie knives.

Can you overpay, sure. But that applies to anything else.

I only own three custom knives.

Two are both rather exotic. Engraved, ivory, etc. But both are beautifully made and built tough. One knife is a bolster automatic folder made by Mel Fassio out of Montana. He likes to add engraving to his knives and I like it from having it on several shotguns.

The other was a scrimmed ivory handled drop-point hunter fixed-blade made by Don Lozier out of Florida. Both are well known makers in the custom knife world. Will they go up/down in price? I really don't care. I plan to leave them to my son with the hope that he leaves them to his son. They are unique and I'm the only one who owns one like it. Besides they are very nice to look at. Beats collecting beer bottles, etc. IMHO.

My other custom is a well-made raindrop damascus hunter that I didn't pay much for but liked it practical style and fine construction. It is unfortunately not marked so I don't know who made it. It is a great field knife and I think I could always get my money back on it.
 
WoodWorkGhost said:
Hi Frank,

My understanding is that Steve is now making Gun Stocks. At this point he has entered the Steve Corkum and Jack Crain realm. There is still some interest, but under no circumstances send them any money.

Hi Anthony,

Keith Coleman was a victim of his own stupidity or greed (you get to choose). The LDC-107 which Keith was selected to make was not a "Grey ****". Grey Turds are knives that look like the Sebenza, just a grey bead blast finish on the titanium.

Coleman decided that making fifty knives for LDC wasn't enough of an order. So he decided to make his own version and was selling it at the same time. Oddly enough he was surprised when he was fired. Bob Neal and Les Robertson the owners of LDC Custom Knives and Purveyors as well. In addition to not selling any more of Coleman's LDC knives, they stopped selling Coleman knives altogether. It does not help your sales when the top two Tactical Folder dealers at the time are not carrying your knives.

Im sure that was only a small part of the equation. It was probably more than just his lack of integrity.

As for Charlie Morris, he had to stop making knives to take care of his mother who had multi-health problems. After she passed away he started making knives again, then he was unfortunate enough to start having health problems as well.

Charlie is an extremly talented knife maker. He gives you a lot of knife for the money.

It is amazing as to how much "stuff" goes on behind the scenes. This adds to the difficulty of avoiding a disaster as much as it does utilizing knives as investments.

WWG
Click to expand...

It's simply amazing how much of the intricate business details a person who seemingly crawled out of the "Woodwork" like a "Ghost" knows about Les Roberson! :eek: ;) :)
 
  • Like
Reactions: RWS
The one general rule that I think is safe is about young makers who make top-quality knives and choose to sell them under value to establish their names. Of course very quickly they bring their prices up to normal level, but in the meantime, they are often great values, and it's hard to loose money on them.
 
As far as major disasters, Dale Reif is one that I wouldn't take a knife from if it were offered to me for free.

I enjoy custom knives a lot. However, because I don't like trading knives and I don't enjoy selling the few knives that I put so much time in trying to acquire, I've quit ordering customs.

IMO, I honestly believe that It'll be extremely difficult to break even on most maker's knives in the long run, especially if the maker ever croaks.

It's because of that that I cannot afford to accumulate $50-$100 grand in somethng that I feel will ultimately depreciate in value.

If you're in the "business" to make money on knives, I guess it's possible to put a lot of orders in to the various makers that are hot right now, wait your turn for the knives to be made and then turn around and sell them for a quick profit. However, with the purveyors and knifemakers pre-buying and selling a lot of the knives at discounts at knife shows it may be hard to make any real money by ordering, waiting, and then paying retail. Just my opinion.
 
I don't know if this qualifies as a disaster, but at one time Mayo folders were selling at an extreme premium on the secondary market when it looked like the supply was drying up, and are now the market is back to more reasonable prices.

I treat knife collecting as a hobby, and would be disappointed if I couldn't break even on my money into the hobby. My way of dealing with reducing the risk of loss is to buy pieces that are under $500, and to limit the number of pieces held at any one time. Because I like buying, it means doing a bit of selling.
 
DGG said:
Guys like Loveless, Fowler, etc. will probably never see a decline in the price of their knives and who knows what will happen to the prices once they are gone.
Click to expand...

Personally I think that Fowlers are going to see a free fall in value, but that's just me.

One thing which is interesting to note is the price of Japanese swords. Most sell for a few $000's. A few sell for several tens of thousands, but they're pretty rare. I own a 14th century wakizashi, papered, beautifully polished, and I paid about $3,000 for it, which is very low compared to prices for modern made blades.

It's hard to say whether it's a good proxy but it sure looks like they sell now for less than they sold in the past (of course, some of them have lost a lot of "meat" through centuries of polishing).

What would be interesting is to hear about makers who were at the very top of the game in the 80's and 90's, and where they are now and why. Most of the horror stories discussed here have been of unethical behavior, but I wonder what happens when someone who was at the very top just stop making knives.
 
I haven't seen my name come up yet, so that's cool! :D
Interesting thread!

And would like to add. . . . .Allen Blade.
Click to expand...

How much of a return do you want on a $55 investment? :eek: I ordered a PackPal from Allan (he is in very good standing at British Blades) and he agreed to accept payment after I received the knife. If he was faster at making knives than he is (and he is still pretty quick), me and the rest of the relative newbies would be making knives for food! :)
 
Geode said:
I don't know if this qualifies as a disaster, but at one time Mayo folders were selling at an extreme premium on the secondary market when it looked like the supply was drying up, and are now the market is back to more reasonable prices.
Click to expand...

I certainly wouldn't put Mayo among "disasters". It is true there was a fever on the market at some point and several TNT's sold for very high prices (like more than double of the original price). Can't blame the maker for that, if was just that everybody wanted one and there weren't that many available. Now the fever calmed down, but they are still soght after.
I got a stellite TNT modified wharnie a couple of years ago, for a reasonable price too. This folder has absolutely top notch fit, finish, action and lockup ... and a bunch of holes :D. I didn't think about selling it when the "fever" was on, and I'm glad I didn't. No disasters with Mayo.
I looked to buy a Mayo fixed blade hunter too .. for quite a while. didn't find one ...
My honest advice: you got a knife by Tom Mayo? Keep it!
 
I agree that TNT's are great knives, but that's irrelevant. The question is about enduring value of a knife as an investment. If you paid top prices for a Mayo in the crazy years, it's going to be hard to make that a financial success story.

Personally, I think Mayo's are very, very good knives. I chose to sell the 2 I had because they didn't fit my collection and I wasn't carrying them. I made a nifty profit, but I had not paid the premium prices.
 
To all that have shared their experiences and opinions of various makers, THANKS! I am learning a lot from this thread.
 
Joss said:
I agree that TNT's are great knives, but that's irrelevant. The question is about enduring value of a knife as an investment. If you paid top prices for a Mayo in the crazy years, it's going to be hard to make that a financial success story.
Personally, I think Mayo's are very, very good knives. I chose to sell the 2 I had because they didn't fit my collection and I wasn't carrying them. I made a nifty profit, but I had not paid the premium prices.
Click to expand...


If you purchased a Mayo TNT on the aftermarket during the peak interest, when knives were selling for double, and did not move it quickly, that is what we would call "disaster". Ill timed to say the least.

Are Tom's knives worth the current price? Oh, heck yeah! But, they are right where they need to be.

What is going on with Ken Onion knives is what is boggling my mind, other advanced collectors that I know, and Ken himself. Where, and when the Onion Market bottoms or corrects itself is unknown to anyone. Could be a disaster or a golden egg, depends on the timing.

Best Regards,

STeven Garsson
 
Hi Danbo,

I have explained this to you before.

The more pressing question is:

How can you have 3 -5 knives per week for sale on the forums and not be a "Dealer"?

WWG
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top