Custom knife prices - bubble?

Buffalohump

Buffalohump

Joined
Sep 7, 2006
Messages
6,193
Hey all, I know this area can be controversial but I just want to get a sense of what others think. I took a six month break at the beginning of this year from knife buying and what all, and when I resurfaced in the latter half of the year, it immediately struck me that the price of custom knives - and in particular folders from certain 'hot' makers, both new and not so new - had sky-rocketed.

Am I imagining this? Has anyone else noticed it? Custom folders used to sell from around $500 to $1K apiece, with the very top guys getting up to $1500 or more. NOW it seems that prices often start at $1,000K - even from relatively new people on the scene - and go up from there.

Is this a sign of a general recovery in the economy and demand increasing as a result? Or has the whole world suddenly discovered custom knives and are willing to pay pretty much anything for a hot maker, (as long as its all Ti and has a flipper :D). Is this a bubble or will it continue on this route indefinitely? I would be very interested to hear what others feel about this.
 
Not sure exactly why the prices have gone up like they have. I was really wanting a horton folder but it looks like I'm gonna have to do without with the way prices have skyrocketed.
 
IMO, as a whole the craft/skillset/materials/quality has risen a few notches so I don't doubt a rise in pricing, within reason.

That being said, capitalism has always been a strong suit for the savvy, eg custom guns.

However, I do believe that some makers are getting a little full of themselves.

If you close your list, limited availability drives costs up; you can control pricing to whatever you want.

Myself, I just want a quality made piece and charged a fair price; I decide how much I want to pay.

YMMV
 
I think its more the aftermarket activity than makers themselves driving the prices up. It could be that demand has increased, which is reducing availability and people can ask astronomical prices when selling. A custom folder was just listed on the Exchange for $5K, just to illustrate my point.

What interests me is what is driving the demand? More people getting into custom knives? More disposable income around? Greater confidence in the overall economy? Its very interesting.

verrocchio100 said:
IMO, as a whole the craft/skillset/materials/quality has risen a few notches so I don't doubt a rise in pricing, within reason.

That being said, capitalism has always been a strong suit for the savvy, eg custom guns.

However, I do believe that some makers are getting a little full of themselves.

If you close your list, limited availability drives costs up; you can control pricing to whatever you want.

Myself, I just want a quality made piece and charged a fair price; I decide how much I want to pay.

YMMV
Click to expand...
 
STeven had a rather interesting opinion about the current market for "gentlemen's tactical folders" recently, but I will let him talk about that if he so chooses.
 
More collectors and more resellers. Makers like Anso, Martin, Terzuola, Mayo, Mick Strider, etc went from pricing south of $1000 a year or so ago to well upwards of $1500 now. Seems to me that this is not a bubble, but more buyers entering the marketplace. Doubt its gonna pop, but I think when you get around $1500 you see a leveling off because that's a very high price for a knife by any standard. On the flip side, you have production companies like boker and ZT stepping up their game substantially.
 
Buffalohump said:
I think its more the aftermarket activity than makers themselves driving the prices up. It could be that demand has increased, which is reducing availability and people can ask astronomical prices when selling. A custom folder was just listed on the Exchange for $5K, just to illustrate my point.

What interests me is what is driving the demand? More people getting into custom knives? More disposable income around? Greater confidence in the overall economy? Its very interesting.
Click to expand...

"Bro Love" is driving the demand.

If a trend lasts 10-20 years in the scheme of knife collecting, it's still a trend.

The trend right now is to make your gods, and eat them rather quickly. New maker comes on scene, makes a splash around MANY forums, says all the right words, earns much love, buys a cool pair of shades, and gets a neat logo crafted.....shows up wearing the right jewelry to a show, and the next thing....he doesn't have to charge $500.00 to $750.00 for his marginal knife anymore, he can do a BID UP....where some clueless collector with more money than brains skews the entire market for that maker in one fell swoop, and there is much rejoicing in the land....bro.

From what I have seen the last three years it is a combination of hype and a complete lack of taste(by previous definitions), coupled with young collectors hungry for "the love."

Best Regards,

STeven Garsson
 
Kohai999 said:
From what I have seen the last three years it is a combination of hype and a complete lack of taste(by previous definitions), coupled with young collectors hungry for "the love."

Best Regards,

STeven Garsson
Click to expand...

Though I don't collect tacticals, I do try to follow everything - and this rings sooo true.
 
STeven, in your usual inimitable fashion, I think you may have hit the nail on the head. It does appear there is a certain cultish quality to many knifemakers, with a devoted following of fanboys. And it would appear that the forums seem to foster this 'we're not worthy' type of rah-rah. Are custom knife makers the new rock stars? :cool:

Kohai999 said:
"Bro Love" is driving the demand.

If a trend lasts 10-20 years in the scheme of knife collecting, it's still a trend.

The trend right now is to make your gods, and eat them rather quickly. New maker comes on scene, makes a splash around MANY forums, says all the right words, earns much love, buys a cool pair of shades, and gets a neat logo crafted.....shows up wearing the right jewelry to a show, and the next thing....he doesn't have to charge $500.00 to $750.00 for his marginal knife anymore, he can do a BID UP....where some clueless collector with more money than brains skews the entire market for that maker in one fell swoop, and there is much rejoicing in the land....bro.

From what I have seen the last three years it is a combination of hype and a complete lack of taste(by previous definitions), coupled with young collectors hungry for "the love."

Best Regards,

STeven Garsson
Click to expand...
 
Buffalohump said:
Is this a bubble or will it continue on this route indefinitely?
Click to expand...

'indefinitely' is a word I'll use once I get my crystal ball. I think you're on the right track- I'm callin bubble! It's the nature of unregulated capitalism!
Hope I don't have to do another 'aftermarket in the toilet' thread again, lol
 
Buffalohump said:
STeven, in your usual inimitable fashion, I think you may have hit the nail on the head. It does appear there is a certain cultish quality to many knifemakers, with a devoted following of fanboys. And it would appear that the forums seem to foster this 'we're not worthy' type of rah-rah. Are custom knife makers the new rock stars? :cool:
Click to expand...

They may be the new rock stars around here, but no so much so anywhere else. I use a knife all day at work, and take a couple everywhere I go for my outdoor activities. Just about everyone I know carries a knife and uses them constantly, too. Yet none of us own a custom folder. We still see them as tools, so the preferred tools for us are Kershaws, Buck, and a few others when it comes to folders.

I think Steve's post was spot on. While I am not denying the quality of some of the work I have seen, the prices on these knives have risen to the point of making them pricey man jewelry. I couldn't see taking one of these $1000+ folders hunting, camping, or on my job of construction.

I hang out most of the time in the traditional area here and the types and styles of folders being sold there from different makers is really astonishing to me. Some of the craftsmanship is as close to perfect as one could describe. But in this age of CNC cutting and drilling, water jet cut blanking, and affordable machinery that enables one to turn out and finest quality product I would have thought that the prices would have stabilized or actually gone down a bit. Everyone seems to make knives now. And the prices keep going up.

The quality seems great on many of the offerings I see, but the prices for the knives surely has to be reaching some kind of ceiling. Outside of this forum and a couple of others, no other group of folks I associate with would consider paying more than a $150 for a knife, and there has to be a reason for that. Since we prize utility value and you can buy a great folder for less than $100 or thereabouts, no one I know that uses and carries knives will spend $1000 for a knife. I think it is important too, that one notices that you never see any of these knives dirty, meaning they are not users nor were they ever meant to be. They are produced to be collected, or lightly used as a neat show off toy when with your buddies. These are not knives as our grandfathers knew them.

They are made, some sent to a professional photographer for display pictures, and then submitted here and there as the latest offering from a maker. The folks that sell them on the secondary market make sure you know the knives have no pocket wear, never been sharpened, has the original packaging and a copy of the invoice describing the knife. The folks that buy them are collectors, collectors collect different things and can be a very eclectic group, and that means that one day the saturation point will be reached. I can't imagine it being that far off.

Robert
 
I'm not sure about folders and pricing since that is outside my arena in knife making... but.. it sure is hard to make a living as a full time maker. It seems to me there are more full time makers coming on to the scene... and sometimes pricing is just the hard reality of surviving.
 
At this past blade show I counted 20+ makers having lotteries, drawings, whatever you want to call them. From my point of view as a maker it would be great to be that high in demand but at some point the "Bubble" has to burst. Usually is is a handful of guys driving the market and when one or a couple of them get bored with knives and start collecting something else the market will change, their ROI will be less than what they paid.
 
midnight flyer said:
Snip...

The quality seems great on many of the offerings I see, but the prices for the knives surely has to be reaching some kind of ceiling. Outside of this forum and a couple of others, no other group of folks I associate with would consider paying more than a $150 for a knife, and there has to be a reason for that. Since we prize utility value and you can buy a great folder for less than $100 or thereabouts, no one I know that uses and carries knives will spend $1000 for a knife. I think it is important too, that one notices that you never see any of these knives dirty, meaning they are not users nor were they ever meant to be. They are produced to be collected, or lightly used as a neat show off toy when with your buddies. These are not knives as our grandfathers knew them.

They are made, some sent to a professional photographer for display pictures, and then submitted here and there as the latest offering from a maker. The folks that sell them on the secondary market make sure you know the knives have no pocket wear, never been sharpened, has the original packaging and a copy of the invoice describing the knife. The folks that buy them are collectors, collectors collect different things and can be a very eclectic group, and that means that one day the saturation point will be reached. I can't imagine it being that far off.

Robert
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I'm a bit disheartened by this section of your post to be honest.

To me a knife is a tool, sometimes a stellar looking and/or performing one, but still, just a tool.
I wouldn't mind one bit paying a premium to have a one-off, but I wouldn't even lay down 10 bucks on a showpiece.
My wife handles the decoration of my house...
1-2 or even 3 grand for a knife is no worries really, but the thing had better cut like the best of them, and do so for a long time:)
 
Birnando said:
I'm a bit disheartened by this section of your post to be honest.

To me a knife is a tool, sometimes a stellar looking and/or performing one, but still, just a tool.
I wouldn't mind one bit paying a premium to have a one-off, but I wouldn't even lay down 10 bucks on a showpiece.
My wife handles the decoration of my house...
1-2 or even 3 grand for a knife is no worries really, but the thing had better cut like the best of them, and do so for a long time:)
Click to expand...

As a construction worker for the last 40 years of my life and a hands on carpenter these days, I won't buy a tool of any sort, a knife, a saw, a hammer, a drill, nothing unless I can honestly say will get the utility value out of the tool. Knives are tools, and that is the way I was raised. You use them properly, take care of them, and in turn you can rely on them to do their job as well.

Until I started reading this forum I had absolutely not one clue that so many collected knives. Knives of all sorts; and never have I seen so many pristine unused knives in one place. As they say though, to each their own, and if being a collector is one's passion, it is a good thing as it keep the interest up for makers to keep making knives.

I had a stretch where I went about 15 years without buying a new knife. Why? Just didn't need one. The Buck, Kershaws, Bokers and Case did all I needed with ease. They weren't worn out. But I was seduced by better steels, some of the old fashioned traditional remakes from Queen (and D2.... oh my....), and then some of the new heavy duty work knives by Kershaw.

I am glad to see such wonderful custom knives being made and sold and if the makers get their price, I am glad for them, too. But for me, I don't get near the satisfaction out of simply owning a knife that I do using for time and finding it to be a sturdy, competent worker. Not into safe queens, and that probably has a lot to do with my philosophy on all tools.

Again, to each his own. I really like seeing some of the excellent examples of craftsmanship I see here. I just don't feel the need to buy one.

Robert
 
Robert, your post is definitely off topic, however I totally see where you're coming from and feel the need to add my two cents.

I use knives for regular stuff every day as well and usually have a Benchmade in my pocket, but when it comes to building trails, (one of the things I spend a lot of time doing) I have specific needs that only a custom knife maker can meet. Sure, I could buy the latest poorly designed, (or inappropriately designed) plastic zombie slayer, but I get very little satisfaction using mass produced items like that because they just don't work as well as something designed specifically for the job.

I too see knives as tools and use them as such. I also see knives, in some cases, as Art. Now I'm no Art collector, and arguably not your typical knife collector, but there does come a time, (especially if you spend time in this forum!) where you just gotta have that piece that gets you going.

Now, some collector types are either impulsive or compulsive or a mixture of the two, and I think those are the folks who are getting mention here in this thread. But there has always been, and always will be shills in any sales environment who ups the hype, and there will always be folks who will buy into that. That's the capitalist way! But I think that this thread is looking beyond that a bit.

I like to stroll around the various online custom knife purveyors, almost daily, and I've noticed something of a glut of high end, mostly tactical, folders that are going for well beyond double the maker's price. Won't fault the purveyor for seeking top dollar for previously owned knives, since they seem to be selling, but when the bubble breaks I think there's gonna be some pretty dissatisfied consumers moping around with knives they'll have to sell for a significant loss once they lose interest, and some purveyors who might lose out on their investment in inventory somewhat.

But, like I said before, I have not yet received my crystal ball, so in the meantime I'll just speculate with the rest of you:)
 
This is less than scientific, but it sometimes seems that I am the perfect bell weather for predicting the next bubble. From the custom choppers fad, to the real estate market, to most recent "hit" TV show, whenever I get interested in something, there is a pretty good chance of the bottom falling out shortly thereafter. Unfortunately for the rest of you on this forum, I got into knife collecting about two years ago and, worse yet, started doing some hobby knifemaking of my own in the last six months. Based on that and my prior experiences, I'd say the days of this custom knife boom are numbered.
 
I too have been floored at the aftermarket prices for certain folders lately, and I don't even collect folders...thankfully!

Granted, there are some amazing folders out there from relatively new makers and I certainly can't fault the makers for trying to make as much money as possible from their work especially if the market can support it. Pretty much the same for dealers. But I do think that STeven once again banged that one squarely in the bullseye and history in the knife world bears that out. Is it a bubble? Probably most definitely could be an almost certain yes, maybe. But that bubble will be replaced by another bubble down the road, and much butt hurt will be screamed by those that end up on the loosing end of the outgoing bubble. Wash, rinse, repeat. Until the next bubble, I'll just sit by the sidelines and wonder what the next one will be. Any guesses? Should we start a pool?

And Lorien you should probably warm that "aftermarket in the toilet" thread up, 'cuz it's going to be inevitable.;)
 
No question about it

Titanium slab folder...'hot' maker...$1400

when did that happen...


-Michael
 
some smokin deals on ole skool gent's folders these days though...
 
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