Custom knives: the downside

T

Twindog

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A couple years ago, after getting the knife bug a little more than I should have, I decided to order a custom knife and see for myself what all the custom-knife buzz on this forum is about.

I picked a knife maker who was highly recommended in various parts of this forum, chose a knife and made the order. The knife was supposed to be delivered in 90 days, and, of course, I paid in advance.

The knife didn't come in 90 days, or 180 days or even a year. So I contacted the builder and asked for either my money back or delivery of the knife. The builder said he didn't have the money and hadn't built my knife. When he got his income tax return, he said he would build it.

He didn't.

OK, the knife was only $135. And I'm not going to name the builder because this thread isn't about sour grapes. Just a warning to people who order from custom knife makers who they don't know. I realize that most, especially the well known makers, are absolutely honest. But some are not. And this practice of paying in advance has its risks. --Josey
 
Do not ever pay for a custom knife in advance. If a maker asks for payment up front, it is my recommendation that another maker should be looked for. There are hundreds of makers that don't even ask for a deposit. I have no problem with reasonable deposits, but will never, never pay for a knife in advance. Not even if I am dying to own one of that particular makers knives.

Sorry to see that you have had this problem. It looks like it has taught you a very good lesson.
 
Twindog said:
And I'm not going to name the builder because this thread isn't about sour grapes.
Click to expand...

But IMO it should be about warning others so they don't get screwed out of their hard-earned money.
 
So, you have a complaint about "a knife maker who was highly recommended in various parts of this forum" but you're not going to mention his name, eh? How would you like it if I tell the world I saw a Bladeforums member whose username begins with T having unnatural relations with a goat?

You're not just posting a complaint about one knifemaker, you're slandering every knifemaker who is highly recommended in various parts of this website. Is that really what you want to do?

Regardless, this belongs in TGB&U.

ThreadMoving.jpg
 
Troll Bait From Hell said:
I hope that you weren't referring to ol' Troll Bait, cause it AIN'T TRUE!!!!
Click to expand...
Actually, it's perfectly natural for Troll Bait to have relations with a goat! :D

(Sorry ... :foot: ... couldn't resist.)​
 
Sorry Cougar, I guess I used the wrong forum. But I'll say two things. 1) I did not give any clues that would identify the maker, and 2) I was quite clear that most knife makers, especially the well known ones, are extremely honest. But I think that a warning about paying in advance is appropriate. I wish someone had warned me.
 
....NOT TO PAY FOR A KNIFE IN ADVANCE.

That is here on the Forums, and specifically, in Customs.

So have a lot of other people.

The Forums are free, for the most part, so it absolutely, positively requires paying due diligence by looking at every forum that might pertain to a subject that you are interested in.

Come on, name names, you will feel much better, and give us all an "opportunity" to help.;)

Best Regards,

STeven Garsson
 
Hey Guys...

Was laughing at Cougar,, but Esav's comment was even better..
LMAO...

I think you should also name names....
What you should do is this....

Tell the maker that if he doesn't cough up the knife or the Dead Presidents by "X" date,, you'll go on the forums and expose him.

I'll tell you that if he ever plans on doing business again on the internet,,he'll be picking up pop bottles in after work to pay you...

Good reputations travel fast,, bad reputations travel even faster...

ttyle

Eric...
 
I`m having a 340.00$ problem with a maker who has only a couple of good feedback on BF,but lots on KF,he was supposed to make me 3 kerambits in August after I sent him 4 knives worth 340.00$ combined,still nothing and no responces to emails or calls.My question is:is there anything that can be done about this thru law enforcement?This is stealing and a very low variety of it,IMHO.
 
If you aren't going to name the Maker then you'e just putting out inflamatory BS that does nothing but damage ALL makers without helping anyone.

With the vast majority of makers you can pay for the knife in advance and get just what you orderd about when it was promised, just like makers can DEPEND on the vast majority of customers to pay for the knife promtly when it's ready. Most people in the Knife World are honest. This is one thing that makes it a pretty nice business to be in.

Unfortunately the MINORITY of bad appleas in the ranks of both customers and makers make some prudent checks and balances good business for both sides.

1. I dont't recommend paying for any knife in full before it's ready to ship. There's no need for buyers to do this and no need for makers to ask for it.

2. Makers should only take orders in writing and the customer should keep a copy of the order. I instituted a written orderform some years ago and it vastly reduces simple errors, gives both parties a wriiten version of what's ordered and what it costs. My orderform has proven so succesful I plan on a yet another even more detailed, revised version for 2006. As the lawyers say: Get it in writing!

3. A deposit is perfectly reasonable and a part of doing business in a professional way for BOTH sides of the transaction. I require a 30% deposit on all orders. If buyers don't feel the maker is professinal enough to give a deposit to, then WALK AWAY. The same goes for makers: if the buyer doen't understand why a deposit is needed for an expensive custom knife, then the chances are pretty good this is one of the ones who will stiff you on the order.

And regarding the argument, the maker can always sell the knife... well when you only make a few knives a month, this can mean perhaps a 20% pay cut that month. Then there are the costs of selling the knife and time it takes, etc etc. On most knives not taken as planned, the maker takes a loss. And none of this helps your cash flow or explains to the landlord that this month you can't pay the rent. There's a big difference between part time or hobby knifemakers and professional makers who make their living as cutlers and run a busness from which they derive their living.

4. Which brings me to this: If you're buying on the net, then use the net to research your maker and compile data as a maker on your customers before the sale! After reading these forums for years, would I accept a cedit card order from Indonesia? Hell no! And as a customer there are some makers from whom I woud NEVER order a knife... most of their names are in this forum. As well as those of some customers... from whom I would never accept an order.

So. I feel better now. ;)
 
I was about to add ... but Kevin really covered it all!

The reason for the forums in the first place is to share information about our interest in knives. If you share the name of the specific maker who has done you wrong, you are helping the rest of us evaluate where not to spend our money.

You may even be helping the maker himself get his act together. If he's been ignoring your attempts to communicate, maybe this will remind him that a little time to him is a long time to a customer.

In any case, we can try to keep it polite. What looks like theft may only be poor business skills. Don't alienate someone who may cooperate eventually.
 
really if ya arent gonna name names the entire thread is worthless imho. why even post it?? i can understand if ya just wanna vent lol, but without names it falls into the gossip category, for me anyway.

like others have said never pay up front, a legit smith wont ask ya to anyway barring a small deposit to pay for ivory/damascus/etc, special material used to make the knife. FWIW i have never had a smith ask for anything up front.

sorry ya had a bad experience, though.
 
You know if I was to get shafted by a maker and then find out later that somebody had gotten screwed before and did not want to name the maker I would be hacked off at the person as well as the maker.

If another gets screwed by this maker because of your refusal to help then that would be extra bad.

Or maybe you just wanted to complain about something that never happened.
 
A local custom maker just dropped of a knife for me to photograph. It's not mine; I'm just photographing it. It's $500 worth of Damascus steel and $300 worth of abalone shell. $800 for those two materials alone. Without the deposit, the maker would be $1000 out-of-pocket without even considering labor. It's not unreasonable for a maker to ask for materials costs upfront.
 
If you don't name the maker, how are you really helping the next guy that gets a knife from this maker?
 
Let me just add one more perspective from a maker's point of view.


I don't like getting paid upfront in full. It actually makes it harder to complete the project. Yes, it's "mental"....but for those of us who pour our heart and soul into a project...having a good mental state makes all the difference.

If I've been paid upfront in full....I'm "under the gun" to get it done...and the likelyhood for me to screw up increases. Don't get me wrong, I prefer to work with deadlines...but having someone else's money already in my account and sometimes already spent getting more supplies gets me down.

At the end of a long arduous knife project...it's nice to have a "reward".....if I've already been paid in full....there's no pot-o-gold at the end of my rainbow. :p


If you encounter a maker that requires payment in full....see if you can negotiate them down to 50/50. If not, move on. They might be full of themselves...or they might simply be too busy. Whatever the reason, making a payment in full can really put a strain on the knifemaker. Just like taking an order with no deposit can really put a strain on the knifemaker (especially if the buyer suddenly backs out).

There's wisdom in the deposit idea. Protection for both sides.



It's always sad to hear about issues like this coming up. The custom knife world is built so much around trust.
 
I understand the issue about naming names. I've resisted for a couple of reasons. I don't know the BF policy for such things, and there's always the chance that the guy had a personal tragedy and is too immature to make things right or acknowledge that he can't make things right.

And yes, I didn't miss the suggestions about messing with goats and the implication that perhaps I'm the one who is lying. So I'll do this: Have one of the moderators contact me privately and I'll give the maker's name and emails and other proof that I have about the transaction. Then I'll give my rights to the refund or knife to the forum. If you can collect either the money or the knife, it's yours to help support this site. If you want to name the maker, it will be up to you. Just grant me temporary rights to message you with my email. --Josey
 
Is this a case of foot in mouth on Twindogs part? Did the transaction not go exactly as planned? Did it even occur at all? If you get the heave ho from this site for naming a maker who is in the wrong, then there is something wrong with this site, which, for the record, they do not do. IMO, I don't think the maker can sue you for libel for what is said on here. Obviously, you believe that you're not going to get your money, you said that if anyone receives either the money or goods, that they can donate it to Bladeforums. The fact that you aren't naming names makes you a little suspect, which is not a bad mark on you, just human nature. Not an attack, just trying to make sense of your announcing the issue, but not naming the other involved party.
 
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