Custom knives: the downside

I apologize to all the honest knifemakers here for not naming the guy sooner,but after reading the thread by HUU,where he describes being cursed and hung up on by this scumbag,I have to SCREAM this:it`s MWM(Mike MacIntosh)!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
I get what you're saying, Silent. My intent on posting was just to open a subject that I thought was important. I thought that I would actually have more credibility if I didn't use the name.

I am not trying to use this forum to resolve a dispute, just open an honest discussion about this issue. Obviously, I am not going to get the knife or my money back.

As for my honesty, I'm willing to give the details privately to a moderator. If the full weight of BF can get action, fine, I'll donate any money that might be received to the forum. Or the forum can send the knife to a soldier. And the moderator can decide whether to use names.

That's the best I can do.
 
This has been banged back and forth like a tennis ball.
Some of you say "never pay up front" (usually buyers I bet).
and the others say "it's ok to pay some or half up front". (I would guess these would be the makers)
I've asked the question before "what if they (the knifemakers) are the only ones who make that particular type or style of knife". You say, "just look else where". but you can't. "There is no else where”
A big dilemma I guess.:confused:

Here's my experiences, little as they are, on it.

I purchased a custom knife from a maker who wanted it ALL up front. I thought long and hard about it and almost walked away from the deal but he really makes a super knife with a design like no other.. It wasn't a lot of money by the standards of some of the deals here but it was a lot for me. ($200). I decided to ask some of his other customers. They all said great things about him so I took the plunge.
Luckily, my story has a happy ending. He not only delivered the knife AHEAD of his promised date but it was done better then I had expected. In the future. I wouldn't hesitate to send him money to do another knife for me.


I have another custom coming in. This maker was different. He didn't want one penny up front. He only wanted payment AFTER he completed the knife.

Then on the last one I have in the works, the maker only wanted SOME money upfront, for materials. The rest will be paid when he completes the knife.

Three different scenarios from three different makers and so far, all good.

My only problem is trying to collect $33 from a deadbeat a**hole down it Texas for a knife I sent him. Stupid I know sending something without payment in hand but my "trust compass" was off that day I guess. $33 stinking lousy dollars and he "stiffs" me on it:mad:
Oh well. from what I've been reading here I got off lucky. Some guys have lost hundreds, even thousands of $$$. Its just "DAMN, $33 LOUSY STINKING MEASELY DOLLARS!!!!!

I know, "calm down, just let it go":D

Anyway, just my 2 cents on it all.
Trust is a 2 way street but somebody has to make the first move.
Thanks for listening.

Mark T.:)
 
I have a few customs that I commisioned from makers whose work I really liked. Some of these guys didn't know me at all, but not a single one was interested in any money at all up front. Based on my little sample, I think that these makers are the norm.
 
I think the reason that many makers don't ask for a deposit upfront, they know that if you don't pay for the knife, they can always sell it to someone else, perhaps for even more $$ than the original quote.

And the trust has to work both ways. The buys must trust that the maker will send the knife after payment is received, and the maker must trust that the buyer is good for the purchase amount.

Personally, as a buyer I wouldn't mind paying a % upfront to cover some of the material costs, especially if the knife was a "true custom". Paying upfront for common batch-made knives seems unnecessary.

The only "true custom knives" (one-of-a-kind designs made exclusively for me) I own are two Anza knives. Anza takes your credit card number as insurance, but doesn't bill until the knife is ready to ship (usually about five days). I know that many custom makers don't have the resources to accept credit card orders, but to me that's the very best payment/trust system available.

I'm on the list for a Allen Blade knife that I may or may never receive. But even he didn't ask for any $$ upfront. If he makes the knife some day, I'll be thrilled to pay for it. If he never makes another knife, I'm not out anything.

Best Wishes,
Bob
 
Twindog said:
I get what you're saying, Silent. My intent on posting was just to open a subject that I thought was important. I thought that I would actually have more credibility if I didn't use the name.

I am not trying to use this forum to resolve a dispute, just open an honest discussion about this issue. Obviously, I am not going to get the knife or my money back.

As for my honesty, I'm willing to give the details privately to a moderator. If the full weight of BF can get action, fine, I'll donate any money that might be received to the forum. Or the forum can send the knife to a soldier. And the moderator can decide whether to use names.

That's the best I can do.
Click to expand...

I can't understand that idea at all. Telling me his name privately would save me from getting ripped off, but what about the other 40,000 members? The idea is to protect everybody from getting ripped off, not just me.

The purpose of this forum is to share our experiences. Just post the facts of what happened. You don't have to express any opinions about it, just post the facts and let the members form their own opinions.
 
The biggest problem I see with not naming the maker is that now nobody knows which of the highly recommended makers it is. That casts some suspicion on all the highly recommended makers that take part on this site. That is really unfair to all the conscientious, honest makers that take part here.
 
Hey Guys...

Twindog...

Also..
Not to be an A$$hole or anything, and it's nice of you to offer the knife to the forums,, however this is still Your problem to deal with..

I don't think anyone here really wants to do your bidding...

Give the maker X amount of days, tell him this in writting.Ask him how long it's going to take and hold him to it...

If the knife doesn't appear on that date,, promptly go to GB&U and expose him..
If that don't put the fear of god in him,, nothing will...

It honestly might kick start this fellow into getting something done..
You will not only be doing everyone here, and everyone that will ever do business with him in the future a favor,, you just may wake this fellow up enough so he gets behind the stick and straightens his act up...

Do yourself a favor and handle this like it should be handled, take the advise given here, and lets hear how it turns out.

If there a black cloud hanging over the knife after you get it,,and you just can't look at it,, then donate it,, raffle it off or give it to someone...

Don't pass the buck onto us, however much we would appreciate it..

It's your transaction handle it between yourself and the Knifemaker, then post the results. It's nearly a tradition here at BF.com

ttyle

Eric....
 
On January 6, 2004, I PayPaled Doug Mondt $275 for a GMC Hunter. (I had fogotten how much it really cost because it has been so long and I'm so old.) The knife was to be delivered in 90 days.

On Sept. 30, 2004, I emailed Doug and told him that I had $2,000 in dental work and could really use a refund if he hadn't started on the knife. I said I would accept $250 to cover the PayPal costs and his trouble.

On Sept. 18, 2004, Doug said he was behind on his work and he didn't have the money to refund. But he said my knife was next on his list.

On January 19, 2005, I asked Doug for an estimate of when I'd get the my knife.

On January 19, 2005, he replied and said that he didn't have the money to refund to me, but I'd get the knife in 90 days or a refund when he got his taxes back.
 
Hey Twindog...

I think what you've done now is showed your hand too fast,, and you've lost the edge that you had several minutes ago..

Now you have nothing to threaten with...

So now what ?

Eric....
 
TD..

So now that you have no leverage in the matter in regards to using this forum and the power that it has,, your kind of stuck, and at his mercy.

By springing the trap too soon,, you may be SOL, and again,, at his mercy and his honesty...

Personally I have no idea who he is,, and never heard of him..

Got a website ??

you should turn this into a new post with his name in the subject header and a :thumbdn: beside it...

ttyle

Eric.....
 
Doug used to be a participating member of Bladeforums, but hasn't been an active member for about 2 1/2 years. He certainly does seem to have a good reputation.
 
I really dislike full payment or too much of a payment in advance. A certain reasonable amount is justified and necessary. Too much is too much and too little is too easy for the customer to back out leaving you with a partiallly finished knife to eat. The money will likely be spent long before the knife in line comes up to be made (not built but made and that leads to the upcomong sentence). There is much and much time involved in making a real knife. It does not take hours but can take weeks. The pay is in gratutude more than in dollars. If anyone other than those already knowing tried to stay with me as long as it takes to make a single knife they would likely not be able to. They would soon tier of it, knowing their time much more valuable than that. The reason I, speaking for me only, dislike payment in full up front is bcause I know chances are when it comes time to start the knife the money has been long since gone and now I must (in my mind) make a knife for no pot at the end of the rainbow. That is what may have happened to you. You may have been continuosly placed to the back burner. It is pure human nature to do so. I have so far accepted payment in full up front three times, as I remember. My salvation is I make knives in batches. So I make twelve or ten or thirteen at a time and so what if one has been payed for completely up front. It takes a hell of man to be able to fund his household totally by knife making alone. I know that truthfully and up close because I am one trying to.

...but in short I think you screwed.

RL
 
You're right, RL. I just didn't give paying in full up-front a lot of thought. So this has been a learning lesson, which is why I made the post -- not to get my money back or seek revenge, but to let other novices know some of the risks.

Eric: Thanks for the advice. I'm not trying to threaten or out-game anyone. I've lost my money and my knife. I named Doug only because not doing so -- unexpectedly for me -- seemed to cause a lot of problems and the intent of my post was lost. I could have tried to use BF to force Doug to pay, but what if that pressure had worked and he delivered the knife and I didn't name him? How would that help the next guy, which is what most people seemed to be worried about?

I had read a lot of posts where Doug made great knives and had a good reputation. Those posts gave me confidence to just send him the money. Maybe he had some terrible circumstances in his life and my knife was low on his priorities, maybe for good reasons. I don't know, and he isn't saying.
 
Twindog, I agree with Eric that you should start a new thread with the name Doug Mondt as the title, and the thumb down icon to the left. That way people will be able to more easily find the thread and have the info in front of them before deciding whether to buy a knive from him.
 
There is something else that I would like to comment on. In my opinion there must be something very wrong for Doug Mondt to be willing to have his reputation damaged over a $135.00 knife.
 
Hey TD...

Yes I agree that not naming him and getting your knife wouldn't be helpful to others for sure..
However it would give Doug the oppertunity to make good on his dept to you, while still keeping his dignity and not having to do damage control..

What you should do now, as I said before is start a new thread,, forward him that thread and give him the oppertunity now to come clean, apologize and most importantly give his side of the story...

In my opinion,, a thread like this about someone can be very damaging to someone, however also it can help straighten things out and explain what may have happened..

Who knows whats happened, you may be correct, something may have happened...These things can happen, and unexpected things pop up out of nowhere..
Better to get it into the open,, and lets get it straightened out...

For everones sake..

I wish you the best of luck my friend..

Eric....
 
TD,

I tried to PM you but you don't have it activated. I might be able to help, e-mail me at

Win
 
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I do hope that you will decide NOT to start a new thread with the makers name associated with a 'thumbs down' attitude. Perhaps he has already become aware of this thread. What goes around comes around and usually does need any help in doing so. I have been on both sides of this fence.

RL
 
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