Custom or not ?

[bigmark408]

well is the handle done on machine? if that is done by hand i would consider it a custom, or at least handmade. nice knife mark :thumbup:

The early zaans had a large amount of hand work involved....some may remember thats why they took so long getting the line going.

 

[NDJeep]

There's a Busse for Sale forum...a Buck for Sale forum...an Automatic for Sale forum...a Production for Sale forum...a Custom for Sale forum...and Knifemakers for Sale forum...ones for Folders and ones for Fixed blades...and on and on...

Many of the same knives can be and are advertised in multiple forums. Just depends on the guy trying to sell it and which forum he thinks "fits" best.

Seems some Mods gotta feel the need to "DO" something....more often than necessary.

The font reprimand.....PETTY There's no "tone" in typing. What? Does it hurt your eyes??

 

[Haze]

IMO it's close but not a "true custom". The handle, while embelished, is the exact same as the one on the production Umnumzaan. The blade is hand ground and uses the "mystery" steel but it does look the same as the production blade, there are no extras to set it apart.

Still a rather nice knife what ever it is.

EKI have "semi cutom" knives just like this. They have hand ground blades on production handles. The blades have zero bevel edges or a swedge and a different finish from production knives to set them apart. They are not though of as true custom knives either.

 

[RICKSTER]

There's a Busse for Sale forum...a Buck for Sale forum...an Automatic for Sale forum...a Production for Sale forum...a Custom for Sale forum...and Knifemakers for Sale forum...ones for Folders and ones for Fixed blades...and on and on...

Many of the same knives can be and are advertised in multiple forums. Just depends on the guy trying to sell it and which forum he thinks "fits" best.

Seems some Mods gotta feel the need to "DO" something....more often than necessary.

The font reprimand.....PETTY There's no "tone" in typing. What? Does it hurt your eyes??

Now thats funny :thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:

 

[bigmark408]

IMO it's close but not a "true custom". The handle, while embelished, is the exact same as the one on the production Umnumzaan. The blade is hand ground and uses the "mystery" steel but it does look the same as the production blade, there are no extras to set it apart.

Still a rather nice knife what ever it is.

EKI have "semi cutom" knives just like this. They have hand ground blades on production handles. The blades have zero bevel edges or a swedge and a different finish from production knives to set them apart. They are not though of as true custom knives either.

OK, if i understand you correctly...you are saying that every "custom that EKI does is different ?

Please give me the stone definition of a "custom" knife not a personal interpitation.

I have had EKI customs and IMO, i have never seen anything closer to a production.

How about the Hinderer's, what makes them custom.

I mean NO disrespect to any maker...just using examples, and there are many to be found in our "custom" section here.

 

[bigmark408]

There's a Busse for Sale forum...a Buck for Sale forum...an Automatic for Sale forum...a Production for Sale forum...a Custom for Sale forum...and Knifemakers for Sale forum...ones for Folders and ones for Fixed blades...and on and on...

Many of the same knives can be and are advertised in multiple forums. Just depends on the guy trying to sell it and which forum he thinks "fits" best.

Seems some Mods gotta feel the need to "DO" something....more often than necessary.

The font reprimand.....PETTY There's no "tone" in typing. What? Does it hurt your eyes??

I spit ice tea all over my desk.

 

[RICKSTER]

I spit ice tea all over my desk.

My font size & color's are not working any more, I think I've been put on report & locked out for font abuse. :yawn::yawn::yawn: Rickster :yawn::yawn::yawn:

 

[Haze]

OK, if i understand you correctly...you are saying that every "custom that EKI does is different ?

Please give me the stone definition of a "custom" knife not a personal interpitation.

I have had EKI customs and IMO, i have never seen anything closer to a production.

How about the Hinderer's, what makes them custom.

I mean NO disrespect to any maker...just using examples, and there are many to be found in our "custom" section here.

Ernie E does true customs like the knives with bolstered handles, those are made pretty much all by hand. He also does knives like the ECA models that are hand ground blades on production handles, those are not "true customs" and even EKI call them semi customs.

I'm not trying to shoot any one down here, I'm just trying to give an example to help "bolster" my oppinion.

 

[bigmark408]

Ernie E does true customs like the knives with bolstered handles, those are made pretty much all by hand. He also does knives like the ECA models that are hand ground blades on production handles, those are not "true customs" and even EKI call them semi customs.

I'm not trying to shoot any one down here, I'm just trying to give an example to help "bolster" my oppinion.

How does he make any money filing all those bolsters by hand....does he also cut out the blades and liners with a hacksaw. :thumbup:
Could you please answer my questions above.

Define mid tech and semi custom and give your opinion if those qualify to be posted in the "custom" section.

 

[zyhano]

Ernie E does true customs like the knives with bolstered handles, those are made pretty much all by hand.

the 'pretty much' says it all.

this is becoming a purist discussion, but the arguments are not convincing, more arbitrary
come on, does a knife maker really has to make every part himself? hand ground? wtf? don,t you need a machine for a hollow grind?

maybe crk should have made it pink to qualify as custom

imo, when someone comes up with a good definition of custom two things will happen:
most of the current customs will not qualify as custom under this definition
people will disagree with the definition as being either too strict or too loose

for me it feels like a custom.

I get what you mean when you say that you feel mods are backing each other. I think it's not worth making a point over by them. People judge poorly sometimes. mods are people. do the math

 

[Esav Benyamin]

I am going to post the response I just gave to a PM about this. Before I do, one comment:

A few of you are having fun pointing out how fallible we are as mods. Too true. We are ordinary, everyday members of the forums. We are expert only in what engages our personal interests. We volunteered to help direct traffic, give advice, and apply the rules as best we understand them.

Of course we back each other up. We communicate with each other to develop common policies so we won't confuse more than control problems. And of course we sympathize with the frustrations all mods face when told -- in large bold caps -- that we are "petty".

In line with one of those rules, we insist you behave courteously in your discussions with each other. You might consider doing the same in your discussions with us.

And now, for my best substantive response to the topic:

I don't have to tell you we have a tremendous variety of knifemaking to knife manufacturing processes. What we have been doing, to keep some kind of order within the Exchange forums, has been to define each source as they began, whether a manufacturer like CRK or a knifemaker like Rick Hinderer.

Once mid-tech, limited editions, and customization gets thrown in, you are asking moderators to become expert at recognizing each variation in the production process. We aren't up for that. Once a maker gets defined as primarily production or primarily custom, that's where we look to see them in the Exchange.

If you seriously need a more nuanced approach from Bladeforums, you will have to get that decision made by Spark.

 

[Esav Benyamin]

Speaking of moving threads, I can see why this was started in the Chris Reeve forum, but I have now moved it to Tech Support.

 

[Karda]

I look at it this way......

Every H.I. khukuri is a one of a kind, Bar none. Each has its own uniqueness. Does this make it a Custom? Some would say so. As H.I. is in the Manufactuers section and sells the same design of knives over and over, they could also be concievably labeled as production. In order to keep this as simple as possible for sellers, buyers and the mod staff, all H.I.'s are sold in the production area, wether only one-of-a kind or one of many. Would i sit here and get my sensitive panties all in a bunch over which forum it is sold in? NO. I would be thankful for such a great place to sell them, that doesnt charge me a percentage of my sale. Your CRK is pretty much in the same boat. It may actually be a custom but it's designed as a production knife, and it is to be sold in the production area. Get over it.

True, mods do sometimes make mistakes, so do members. None of us are infallible. Somtimes both parties make decisions when technicalities arent exactly clear. Moderators have base guidlines to follow, just as members have rules to follow.

I support Mike G.'s decision.

 

[NDJeep]

...And of course we(mods) sympathize with the frustrations all mods face when told -- in large bold caps -- that we are "petty".

In line with one of those rules, we insist you behave courteously in your discussions with each other. You might consider doing the same in your discussions with us.

We "insist" on courtesy...? LOL Then show some.

Look E, there was a perfectly legit debate going on about the definition of what constitutes a Custom knife. The OP and others were discussing this with civility and there were good arguments on both sides.

A poster who used large fonts in another CRK thread where he was expressing joy about a cool knife uses the same font in this thread in support of the OP......and gets told to "Tone it done" and that "he's not impressing anyone"....lectured like some kid in Kindergarten.

That...is petty. And it had nothing to do with the civil debate that grown men were having.

Maybe we should have a debate as to what proper Moderation is?
Maybe we should "insist" in the right to type in any color or size we choose?

With all DUE respect,

NDJeep

 

[NDJeep]

I don't have to tell you we have a tremendous variety of knifemaking to knife manufacturing processes. What we have been doing, to keep some kind of order within the Exchange forums, has been to define each source as they began, whether a manufacturer like CRK or a knifemaker like Rick Hinderer.

Once mid-tech, limited editions, and customization gets thrown in, you are asking moderators to become expert at recognizing each variation in the production process. We aren't up for that. Once a maker gets defined as primarily production or primarily custom, that's where we look to see them in the Exchange.

Thats a very good clarification. :thumbup:

Thank you.

 

[Karda]

We "insist" on courtesy...? LOL Then show some.

Look E, there was a perfectly legit debate going on about the definition of what constitutes a Custom knife. The OP and others were discussing this with civility and there were good arguments on both sides.

A poster who used large fonts in another CRK thread where he was expressing joy about a cool knife uses the same font in this thread in support of the OP......and gets told to "Tone it done" and that "he's not impressing anyone"....lectured like some kid in Kindergarten.

That...is petty. And it had nothing to do with the civil debate that grown men were having.

The Mod's Are Way Off Base One This On

Everyone knows that typing in caps is akin to yelling and usually does nothing to bolster ones argument. At this point Rickster was asked to tone it down by Ken using language that was no stronger than his own. There was No real cause for the sarcastic and inflammatory statements that followed. Esav was very courteous and he was ignored. When you attack, inflame or incite, you should be prepared to be made accountable for your choice of verbage.

What it comes down to here is mods havin each others back without a reasonable explination.

Doesn't make sense guys...when you guys clean out the custom section of all the knives that may be in question, then will i give a public apology for questioning your ethics.

Ken,
Im sorry, I must have missed the font size rule.......... Rickster

The font reprimand.....PETTY There's no "tone" in typing. What? Does it hurt your eyes??

I get what you mean when you say that you feel mods are backing each other. I think it's not worth making a point over by them. People judge poorly sometimes. mods are people. do the math

When you attack someones ethics and behavior, you should bear in mind that yours may also come into question. Using inflammatory statements, just like typing in caps, does nothing to bolster your argument. If you want to be treated like grown men, then you must act like grown men. There was reasonable explanation given early in the thread, only to be ignored so that imflammatory statements could be made which added nothing to the conversation at hand.

I agree with Mike G. The Umnumzaan, like the Sebenza, is a production knife. Limited editions don't qualify as customs, or we'd go nuts directing traffic on the Exchange forums.

Maybe we should have a debate as to what proper Moderation is?
Maybe we should "insist" in the right to type in any color or size we choose?

With all DUE respect,

NDJeep

Again, if you wish respect, then i would suggest that you take a deep breath before you type more inflammatory statements. If you wish respect in return, you must first show that you have some.

Maybe you should calm yourself down and realise that the staff here is volunteer and does its best to keep things straight and organised in a sea of people whom choose to push limits and circumvent rules. You may choose to debate about proper moderation, but you must first realise that staff has to play by the rules given by the Administration. You may also choose to insist on your choice font size and color, but it doesnt mean the admin will allow it. Posting here is a priveledge, not a right.

 

[NDJeep]

I'm as "calm" as can be. Must be another judgement on tone...

How is "Tone it down...typing in large fonts is NOT going to make an impression on anyone, especially the mods." being respectful?

And does THAT contribute well to the discussion?

Goes both ways, Pal.

As I said...the discussion was completely civil...until a Mod comes in and lectures on something unrelated to the topic.

 

[MORIMOTOM]

ken c. is as good a mod as we have here.

rick always types that way, but ken, or anyone, can't be expected to know everyone on the forums.

that was how he interpreted the post, and he reponded appropriately based on his interpretion. i have never known ken to be rude or disrespectful unless he perceives that from a member.

and there is abslutely "tone" in posts. that is not a valid defense to a sarcastic response. i can easily read sarcasm in to your posts. you can claim lack of intent, but it is very clearly there.

 

[Haze]

How does he make any money filing all those bolsters by hand....does he also cut out the blades and liners with a hacksaw. :thumbup:
Could you please answer my questions above.

Define mid tech and semi custom and give your opinion if those qualify to be posted in the "custom" section.

I'm not able to tell you how E.E. does his customs, but to answer your question(s) "probably not".

That Umnumzaan could fit in either sales forum TBH, as could any mid tech knife. If it's not factory made and has a good amount of hand finishing it is just splitting hairs I suppose.

 

[NDJeep]

ken c. is as good a mod as we have here.

rick always types that way, but ken, or anyone, can't be expected to know everyone on the forums.

that was how he interpreted the post, and he reponded appropriately based on his interpretion. i have never known ken to be rude or disrespectful unless he perceives that from a member.

and there is abslutely "tone" in posts. that is not a valid defense to a sarcastic response. i can easily read sarcasm in to your posts. you can claim lack of intent, but it is very clearly there.

Of course he's a good Mod. He's a Flyers fan too...:thumbup:

I just got a thing for Mods coming into a group discussion with D***s a'swingin' and when questioned the rest of the posse arrives and inevitably the oldest threat in message boards get tossed out.

"It's a privilege not a right".

LOL

*moving on to another playground. It's getting "stuffy" in here.