Custom or not ?

There's a whole lot of whining in this thread and I'm pretty sick of dealing with butt-hurt prima donnas this week, so I'm going to be very clear:

If you cannot discuss this issue without insults and snide remarks, you are going to lose access to the forums for 30 days.

I'll make a ruling when I've had a better chance to look over the facts at hand.
 
Mark,
I would be interested to know Chris' opinion on this debate as the maker/manufacturer? of the knife in question. Please let us know when you get an answer. Regardless, your Umnumzaan is a unique and beautiful knife.
 
Ok, I've had a chance to review the original thread in question, and here are my thoughts.

Ordinarily, the Umnumzaan is rightfully considered a production knife. Even the Unique Graphic models are still production knives, simply limited run versions of them.

That line, in my opinion, is crossed when the knife has a hand ground blade, made of a non-standard steel, with custom handle designs, and is hand finished.

We all know that lots of makers use mid-teched materials. In my opinion, it is an unrealistic burden to require that each and every component be made by hand, including screws and pivots. We're not requiring that custom makers hand lay the material & form G10 / Micarta / stabilized wood themselves, nor do they have to smelt the steel. Taking a blank and hand grinding it is a much different process than simply plugging it into a CNC and letting the machine do all the work.

So, what do we have to look at with regards to this knife?

Was the blade hand ground? We're told yes, in a non-standard steel.

Were the handle slabs done by hand? We're told yes.

In my opinion, this is a custom knife. It's not a standard Unnumzaan pulled off the production line and embellished, it's a custom version done by Chris Reeve himself, along with documentation to show this.

As such, it belongs in the custom knife forum.

If you disagree with me, please say so and why.
 
wade _s said:
Mark,
I would be interested to know Chris' opinion on this debate as the maker/manufacturer? of the knife in question. Please let us know when you get an answer. Regardless, your Umnumzaan is a unique and beautiful knife.
Click to expand...


I spoke to Chris for about a half hour on the phone this morning and he feels very strongly that this is a custom knife for many reasons, he does not have the time to post in this thread as he feels it would be endless....Chris said to have a mod call him...he also commented that this knife may bring 3K on ebay.

I want to make it clear to the mods that have posted and i have pm'd with that i meant NO dissrespect , I know they have to make tough decisions on the forums.

In my few years here i have spoken with Kevin (spark) 2 times and he has always been solid and fair. :thumbup:

Hugs for all :thumbup:
 
Spark,

If you say it's a custom then I will retract my comments regarding it not. For the future I think we should have some clear cut rules as to what is and is not to be considered a custom knife given the current state of the knife world and the introduction of semi-custom and mid-tech lines. I think this will remove any doubt when and if this incident happens in the future.

So, with that said....

Mark, please accept my apologies.
 
Ken C. said:
Spark,

If you say it's a custom then I will retract my comments regarding it not. For the future I think we should have some clear cut rules as to what is and is not to be considered a custom knife given the current state of the knife world and the introduction of semi-custom and mid-tech lines. I think this will remove any doubt when and if this incident happens in the future.

So, with that said....

Mark, please accept my apologies.
Click to expand...

Thanks Ken , this shows a high level of class in my book . :thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:
 
Spark is the ultimate authority here, and what he says goes.

With that, Mark, you may repost the knife, in a new thread, in the custom forum.

I don't appreciate having my balls busted in PM; I was doing my job, based on what I know about CRK. You were asked to provide me solid proof, and this would have ended right there. Instead, you decided to drag this out, and accuse me of being rude, and unfair.

Repost your knife in the custom for sale area, and good luck with your sale.
 
Spark said:
...In my opinion, this is a custom knife. It's not a standard Unnumzaan pulled off the production line and embellished, it's a custom version done by Chris Reeve himself, along with documentation to show this.

As such, it belongs in the custom knife forum.

If you disagree with me, please say so and why.
Click to expand...
I don't care which forum any knife is listed on. A buyer must be aware of what he is buying. Listing it on the correct forum will give the seller better exposure to the right buyer.
However, I agree with Spark. My definition of custom is 50 years old, when the term began to be applied to a maker's product, even though the item was not built for a particular CUSTOMer. At that time the distinction between custom and production was if the name on the blade is the person who made it, all of it, either by hand or by machine. I apply this definition even now, for instance to a current Loveless, made by a shop apprentice or several shop people.
 
This thread is an interesting read, from many different angles.
 
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