Customer "fixed" knife. Now it's really broke. Refund$??

horizonod

horizonod

Joined
Jul 31, 2000
Messages
353
I have a customer that ordered and recieved a cheap OTF DA. Not the REAL cheap ones but no Microtech, you know the ones.

He calls and says it's "broke" and wants to return it. That's fine, return it and we'll send you another.

I get it back and it's got screwdriver scratches all over the side where the 2 small screws that hold the internan mechanism together are. One of those screws was completely out and could not be put back in without disassembly to realign the interior parts.

While putting it back together the button broke off the slide.

I know excactly what happened.

First thing everybody wants to do is see just what this OTF will penetrate. The answer is NOTHING shy of a firmly stretched piece of paper. When the blade meets resistance it doesn't engage with the spring glide that pulls it back. My theory is this customer did just this. When it happens you simply pull the blade all the way out and it re-engages. HJe didn't do that. Instead he thinks he broke it so he starts taking screws out. When he can't get then back in because the inside is all out of alignment he calls me and says it arrived broke.

Now I'm not really concerned about giving the guy another knife or paying shipping again but when he called I told him what I thought he had done and how to fix it (pulling the blade out) before he said the screws were coming out too.

It's obvious by the condition of the knife the guy worked VERY hard trying to get the screws back in.

If it was TRUELY that way when he got it (screws falling out blade won't go back in, which I've NEVER had before, and I visually inspect all knives while packaging), wouldn't that have been the time to call if you were this clueless about knives.

I feel like I'm being hosed and the hoser thinks he's fooled me with his explaination and will get a brand new knife instead of the one he trashed.

Should I say anything, ask for a partial payment, or just shut up and get out the KY jelly?
 
Well from a customer service point of view you don't have many real options. Its very unlikely that he is going to admit screwing the knife up and frankly if the initial problem happened the way you think it might have happened he is most likely unaware that he might have caused the problem.

Its like this: You send him a replacement and he's not a total crud he will be grateful and maybe tell a person or two that you treated him right. If you ask him for more money for a replacement or repair I guarentee you he will tell everyone he can think of about the "dealer who screwed him over".

If you are of a mind to I'd send him a replacement with a friendly note about not attempting repairs himself and a "just this once" warning.

 
Don't send him a new one, imho. Do you take a car back to the dealer after you wreck it? "Sorry, can I try again? I'll be careful.." no

I worked at one of the manufacturers here in the forums in Customer Service for long enough to know and people try all kinds of weird stuff with their knives, then send them in expecting the world. This is a real conversation:

Him: "Hi, yea..I need to send my knife in, it's one of the ones with the skeletal blade"
Me: "Oh, ok what happened to it?"
Him: "I was gutting a deer with it"

Again - No
The knife industry is a business like any other. We're known for being good fair folk, but don't be a doormat.

Danelle
http://i.am/Danelle

[This message has been edited by Danelle O'Shea (edited 06-22-2001).]
 
Some companies will eat a loss like that just for PR/CS reasons. Others will not. If you want this guy to be a repeat customer and you care what he tells his friends, you have to send him a new knife. If you don't care about him or what he says, tell him you don't replace knives damaged by the buyer. Remember that with forums like this a guy can tell a lot of people. In cases like this you're putting your reputation against some money, which is worth more to you?

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Jason aka medusaoblongata
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This space for rent.
 
Sounds like a cut and dried case of voiding any implied or explicit warranty to me.

You are in no way obligated to send a replacement or refund. If the customer doesn't understand that, it is the customer's problem (though of course you may lose his business).

Them's the breaks. No pun ... well, okay, I intended it.

-Razor

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me.gif

AKTI #A000845
 
I agree with Danelle. He shouldn't have tampered with it to begin with. As the saying goes: If it ain't broke, don't fix it.
Good customer service is replacing the knife if there is a noticable "manufacturer's defect" not because the purchaser tinkered around with it and ruined it. The guy bought it, messed with it, so he's stuck with it. Case closed.
 
If it is the reclusive manufacturer I think it is, no warrantys are offered with his product anyway. if you can fix it, fine. but if not, send it back as is. Danelle is right. If he rips you once, he just might come back for seconds.
David

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AKTI# A000150
NC Custom Knifemakers Guild member
NC Knife Knuts member
 
I already told him what I thought he did because his first complaint was "the blade won't go back in", I told him to grasp the blade and pull it all the way out. He said that didn't work because the screws were falling out. Those screws hold in the spring loaded latches. He couldn't get them back in after he took them out because the spring tension pushed them past the threaded hole.

He denied doing anything to it. He expects me to believe he got it in this condition. I guess the factory bummed it up and scratched it around the screw holes. None of the other ones have ANY scratches let alone looking like a spyderweb.

If it was a defect he'd have a new knife already but I just hate being hosed.

I know good customer "relations" would be just to replace it but I question whether I want a relationship with a customer that buys one of the cheapest, lowest margin items we sell then doesn't know how to use it, breaks it, and says he got it that way.

I can't resell the knife now so he paid for ONE knife plus shipping and insurance but I am out 2 knives, 2 shipping charges and 2 insurance charges on a very low margin item. I'll be lucky to break even. I take that back, I can't even break even.

I guess maybe a "you brake it you bought it" policy might be in order. I've had people send items back before with a cracked stag scale or something like that that I think they probably did but I replace it anyway because there's a little better bump on stag knives and these customers buy higher end stuff.

I KNOW this guy ruined this knife. My heart says send the bonehead a new one and eat it. My head says "BULLSPIT" !
 
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by horizonod:
I know good customer "relations" would be just to replace it but I question whether I want a relationship with a customer that buys one of the cheapest, lowest margin items we sell then doesn't know how to use it, breaks it, and says he got it that way.
</font>
Click to expand...

And tells his friends, family members, co-workers, and neighbors to go ahead and do the same, cause he knows a guy that will let you return it for a brand new one.

 
Points to consider;

1. You are not legally or ethically obligated to "un-make" the customer's stupid mistake. (Especially when he's lied to you.)

2.If you make him VERY happy, he'll tell three people. If you make him very UNHAPPY, he'll tell one hundred.

He won't tell them "I broke my knife cause I'm stupid and they wouldn't give me another one for free!" He'll say "I ordered a knife from Nick at Horizon Outdoors, and that SOB sent me a bad one and then wouldn't replace it."
Sad, but that's the way it works most of the time.
Tough call, you've got to go with what your business sense tells you. Don't let your righteous indignation cloud your judgement.

This is just one of the drawbacks to dealing with "The Consumer."

Good luck either way!


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Desenfundeme no sin la razón, envaineme no sin honor
Usual Suspect
Too Sexy for my shirt
MOLON LABE!
 
I hate to see people do that sort of crap. The guy was obviously conning you into giving him a brand new knife. Perhaps a policy like: "NO REFUNDS or EXCHANGES for knives showing signs of tampering" will help in the future. Some people may disagree with me on this, but the retailer must protect him/herself from being taken advantage of too.
 
Isn't this thread more in turn for the "GB&U Forum ?"

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Livin' Life ~ Full Throttle
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Thanks guys. Lot's of good suggestions and food for thought. I am trying not to let my "rightious indignation" cloud my judgement. That's why I'm asking unbiased opinions.

As far as the "no returns or exchanges on knives that show tampering or damage". GREAT IDEA. Our terms say were are not in business to supply samples You can send stuff back that is wrong, broken or other good reason but not because it just wasn't quite what you thought or you decided you can't afford it.

It just irks me to be conned. If the guy had called and said he tried to see what the blade would penetrate and it won't go back in, I would have told him how to fix it. He didn't. Now he wants me to give him a new knife after he learned how it works by breaking the first one.

I guess the BIG question is, should this activity really be rewarded?

I know if I don't send him a new one he will tell people I cheated him. That's the way people are, "to err is human...........to blame someone else is even more human",but I look at it like people that know him will consider the source.



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Arguing with some people is like trying to shovel smoke!!
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The more people I meet,the more I like my dog:^)
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[This message has been edited by horizonod (edited 06-22-2001).]
 
gigone, one more post to 1000, make it a good one! (sorry to be off topic but i saw the 999 and had to say something)
 
It depends if you want his type of business? If it was a Microtech, I would be very unhappy in you possition. If it is some cheap rubbish knock off, I would send hima new one and put a cover note explaining it has been tested and is working perfectly. If you get the knife back in a similar fashion, well then it tough for him. Do you want the agro for a knock off blade? I would give him his money back and tell him to buy elsewhere if I were you. Tell him to try a rather less sophisticated blade like a Buck 110.

Thats what I would do.

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Wayne.
"To strive to seek to find and not to yield"
Tennyson
Ranger motto

A few useful details on UK laws and some nice reviews!
http://members.aol.com/knivesuk/
Certified steel snob!
 
I think you've already made up your mind that you are getting screwed and that you'll suck it up and send this clown a new knife and take the loss to keep your good name. What you may want to consider in the future is not to carry that quality of merchandise, if the company won't back the product why carry it?

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Will Work 4 Knives
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If he wants PENETRATION maybe I could talk him into a Livesay fixed blade he can pound through the hood of his car:^)

Hah. That wouldn't be a nice thing to do to his car dealer. He'd probably take it back and tell them it came that way and he just noticed it.:^)

I'll send him a new knife but I'm going to tell him EXACTLY what I THINK happened and ask him to let his conscience be his guide.

That way I get to have my cake (say) and watch somebody else eat it.:^)
 
You're right Phil. That's what I'm going to do.

As far as the merchandise though, people ask for it and want it. It's a good seller and I've never had problem one. The manufacturer standing behind it is a moot point. Not only would I not ask them too but they probably wouldn't replace if I did. It's not thier fault. The knife is Italian made (not Chinese or Tiawanese) and good quality compared to the ones you are probably thinking about.

It's not the product that's the problem.
 
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