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The BladeForums.com 2024 Traditional Knife is ready to order! See this thread for details: https://www.bladeforums.com/threads/bladeforums-2024-traditional-knife.2003187/
Price is$300$250 ea (shipped within CONUS). If you live outside the US, I will contact you after your order for extra shipping charges.
Order here: https://www.bladeforums.com/help/2024-traditional/ - Order as many as you like, we have plenty.
Customer "fixed" knife. Now it's really broke. Refund$??
- Thread starter horizonod
- Start date
- Joined
- Nov 6, 1999
- Messages
- 2,639
You are going to have to deal with idiots from time to time doing business. I think it is part of the cost of doing business. Follow your heart, be nice, send the dork a new knife.
BUT....
remember the old saying:
Fool me once, shame on you
Fool me twice, shame on me
You know he wrecked the knife. He knows he wrecked the knife. And he knows that you know he wrecked the knife. Don't say anything more about it and Maybe he will become your best customer. Good luck!
Paracelsus
BUT....
remember the old saying:
Fool me once, shame on you
Fool me twice, shame on me
You know he wrecked the knife. He knows he wrecked the knife. And he knows that you know he wrecked the knife. Don't say anything more about it and Maybe he will become your best customer. Good luck!
Paracelsus
- Joined
- Mar 23, 2000
- Messages
- 3,769
There is a fine line between making the customer happy and not being taken by the customer.
In a perfect world, if something either came in non-perfect condition or malfunctions under warrantable conditions, then return it to the manufacturer (or through the dealer) for warranty procedures. The customer should not try to fix it on their own. If they do play with it, then they should understand that warranty no longer not apply, because they have assumed responsibility that is not theirs to assume.
For the customer service side, the customer is always right and always give the customer the benefit of the doubt. But how far does a dealer or manufacturer go? If every lying, cheating moron of a customer got their way, the businesses involved could go out of business or have to hike up the prices to cover these kinds of losses.
Complete disassembly of most knives should void the warranty. Most manufacturers have language in their warranty policy to cover things like this (see SOGs warranty). But, if a customer does and reassembles it perfectly, a manufacturer will never know. In other words, customers who know their stuff should be able to tinker a bit with their knife (again, depending on the model and level of tinkering). But if they dont have a clue what theyre doing and they screw it up, the dealer or manufacturer should not be liable for the customers screw up.
Some knives give some tinker room to adjust tension pivots (and other adjustments). But unless a knife is advertised that complete disassembly is possible, it shouldnt be attempted unless the user is willing to have the warranty voided if they screw it up.
If I were you, even if I said Id promised to replace the knife, Id send it back as I received it. Any promise like that made (by the way, I avoid those sight unseen promises) is contingent upon the customer being honest with you. Also, if youre not the manufacturer, you can have the customer forward the knife to them. The manufacturer is on the line for execution of warranty, not the dealer (this is a little pet peeve of mine, dealers so often administer warranty when that is rightly the manufacturers responsibility).
If you want to be a nice guy, cut the customer a deal on a replacement. Dont personally take a loss.
You guys should probably know (and some of you already know), I administer SOGs warranty. The buck stops with me. We are very lenient on what we consider. But, in certain cases (and very infrequently, maybe once every two or three months), I deem the warranty voided. And yes, I do return knives to customers as I received them. This is only after every possible consideration has been afforded the customer. This includes seeing if we have a second that can be used as a replacement. Ill almost always offer a discount on a replacement to soften the blow. Sometimes Im taken up on it.
------------------
Ron Andersen
Consumer Services Manager
SOG Specialty Knives & Tools, Inc.
Website: www.sogknives.com / Email: ron@sogknives.com
The SOG Forum
In a perfect world, if something either came in non-perfect condition or malfunctions under warrantable conditions, then return it to the manufacturer (or through the dealer) for warranty procedures. The customer should not try to fix it on their own. If they do play with it, then they should understand that warranty no longer not apply, because they have assumed responsibility that is not theirs to assume.
For the customer service side, the customer is always right and always give the customer the benefit of the doubt. But how far does a dealer or manufacturer go? If every lying, cheating moron of a customer got their way, the businesses involved could go out of business or have to hike up the prices to cover these kinds of losses.
Complete disassembly of most knives should void the warranty. Most manufacturers have language in their warranty policy to cover things like this (see SOGs warranty). But, if a customer does and reassembles it perfectly, a manufacturer will never know. In other words, customers who know their stuff should be able to tinker a bit with their knife (again, depending on the model and level of tinkering). But if they dont have a clue what theyre doing and they screw it up, the dealer or manufacturer should not be liable for the customers screw up.
Some knives give some tinker room to adjust tension pivots (and other adjustments). But unless a knife is advertised that complete disassembly is possible, it shouldnt be attempted unless the user is willing to have the warranty voided if they screw it up.
If I were you, even if I said Id promised to replace the knife, Id send it back as I received it. Any promise like that made (by the way, I avoid those sight unseen promises) is contingent upon the customer being honest with you. Also, if youre not the manufacturer, you can have the customer forward the knife to them. The manufacturer is on the line for execution of warranty, not the dealer (this is a little pet peeve of mine, dealers so often administer warranty when that is rightly the manufacturers responsibility).
If you want to be a nice guy, cut the customer a deal on a replacement. Dont personally take a loss.
You guys should probably know (and some of you already know), I administer SOGs warranty. The buck stops with me. We are very lenient on what we consider. But, in certain cases (and very infrequently, maybe once every two or three months), I deem the warranty voided. And yes, I do return knives to customers as I received them. This is only after every possible consideration has been afforded the customer. This includes seeing if we have a second that can be used as a replacement. Ill almost always offer a discount on a replacement to soften the blow. Sometimes Im taken up on it.
------------------
Ron Andersen
Consumer Services Manager
SOG Specialty Knives & Tools, Inc.
Website: www.sogknives.com / Email: ron@sogknives.com
- Joined
- Mar 23, 2000
- Messages
- 3,769
Hi Ken,
Though this might be partially true, isn't it this type of guy who has a track record with his "friends" and they know the real truth?
Anyone who tells me "I did everything right and the dealer/manufacturer wouldn't stand behind the product," I ask myself, "what's he not telling me? 'Cause that doesn't sound right."
Ron@SOG
Though this might be partially true, isn't it this type of guy who has a track record with his "friends" and they know the real truth?
Anyone who tells me "I did everything right and the dealer/manufacturer wouldn't stand behind the product," I ask myself, "what's he not telling me? 'Cause that doesn't sound right."
Ron@SOG
Gollnick
Musical Director
- Joined
- Mar 22, 1999
- Messages
- 29,258
Paracelsus (nice to see you again) has spoken wisely as alway.
You can probably deduct the loss from your taxes (which doesn't make up for it totally, I know, but does lessen the blow somewhat).
When you send the new knife, over pack it very carefully. Wrap it in bubble wrap and put that bundle in a small box. Then, put the small box in a big box with six inches of packing curls around all sides.
Send a gracious letter:
Dear Valued Customer,
We receive these knives from a supplier who has, in the past, been totally reliable. In fact, we've never had one damaged or returned. Sometimes customers get into trouble with these knives because they try to penetrate something and then the blade won't cycle properly. I usually just tell them to carefully grasp the blade and pull it out to full extension and that solves the problem. That is the only problem we've had with these knives. So, we've gotten into a bad habit. We've gotten into the habit of just shipping these knives to our valuable customers without individually inspecting the knives.
I want you to know that in order to correct this problem and in order to restore your confidence in us, I've personally inspected all of the remaining stock we have on these knives and I've ordered my staff to open and reinspect all of these knives before they're sent to customers.
You can rest assured that we will not ship another defective knife.
As you can imagine that I was shocked by the defects in and the extensive scratches on your knife. This is totally unacceptible and I can only imagine how you felt when you received this horrible knife. I'm glad that you brought this to my attention and allowed me the opportunity to correct this for you. I want all of my customers to be completely happy with their new knife.
To win back your trust and your future business, I have personally carefully inspected the enclosed new knife to be certain that it is perfect in every way. I have personally carefully packed it to be sure that it won't be damaged in shipping.
I hope that you find this knife acceptible. If not, please return it since all of our knives are fully guaranteed against defects in materials and manufacturing.
Sincerely,
etc.
While gracious in its tone, this will make clear to the customer that if he breaks this one, it's gonna be his fault.
------------------
Chuck
Balisongs -- because it don't mean a thing if it ain't got that swing!
http://www.balisongcollector.com
You can probably deduct the loss from your taxes (which doesn't make up for it totally, I know, but does lessen the blow somewhat).
When you send the new knife, over pack it very carefully. Wrap it in bubble wrap and put that bundle in a small box. Then, put the small box in a big box with six inches of packing curls around all sides.
Send a gracious letter:
Dear Valued Customer,
We receive these knives from a supplier who has, in the past, been totally reliable. In fact, we've never had one damaged or returned. Sometimes customers get into trouble with these knives because they try to penetrate something and then the blade won't cycle properly. I usually just tell them to carefully grasp the blade and pull it out to full extension and that solves the problem. That is the only problem we've had with these knives. So, we've gotten into a bad habit. We've gotten into the habit of just shipping these knives to our valuable customers without individually inspecting the knives.
I want you to know that in order to correct this problem and in order to restore your confidence in us, I've personally inspected all of the remaining stock we have on these knives and I've ordered my staff to open and reinspect all of these knives before they're sent to customers.
You can rest assured that we will not ship another defective knife.
As you can imagine that I was shocked by the defects in and the extensive scratches on your knife. This is totally unacceptible and I can only imagine how you felt when you received this horrible knife. I'm glad that you brought this to my attention and allowed me the opportunity to correct this for you. I want all of my customers to be completely happy with their new knife.
To win back your trust and your future business, I have personally carefully inspected the enclosed new knife to be certain that it is perfect in every way. I have personally carefully packed it to be sure that it won't be damaged in shipping.
I hope that you find this knife acceptible. If not, please return it since all of our knives are fully guaranteed against defects in materials and manufacturing.
Sincerely,
etc.
While gracious in its tone, this will make clear to the customer that if he breaks this one, it's gonna be his fault.
------------------
Chuck
Balisongs -- because it don't mean a thing if it ain't got that swing!
http://www.balisongcollector.com
- Joined
- Nov 30, 2000
- Messages
- 860
Well, my advice is this:
Send the idiot a new knife, and change your policy.
Then take the broken knife, and shoot it repeatedly until there is nothing left but a pile of metal shards. Have fun.
-- Rob
------------------
Me fail english? That's unpossible!
Send the idiot a new knife, and change your policy.
Then take the broken knife, and shoot it repeatedly until there is nothing left but a pile of metal shards. Have fun.
-- Rob
------------------
Me fail english? That's unpossible!
- Joined
- Feb 19, 1999
- Messages
- 2,959
Hey Ron,
I don't know. Maybe I'm a little cynical, but it just seems that this is how things were when I was running my own business. (Gun and knife shop)
As far as his friends seeing through him.
There's more than one of "him" out there, and like Gramma said, "Birds of a feather flock together." (Sure, you and I would see through it, but a lot of people won't.)
No matter how ethical your actions are, there's always a faction that cannot be pleased unless you "hand over the inventory."
Granted, these aren't really the people you WANT as customers, but the people THEY talk to may well be exactly the folks you want.
Ideally, horizonod would have had a clear and ironclad policy upfront before this situation came up. It's much easier to resolve with standing policy, and there's usually a lot less ill will generated.
As it is though, he's stuck now and has to make a policy decision with the customer virtually standing there waiting. This is tough, and this is the kind of thing that can cause a LOT of ill will.
I didn't offer an opinion before, just offered a couple points to consider, but the way I think I'd handle this, would be to eat the cost of the knife. It's a low end SKU, not like a CTII or something and the known loss of profit probably won't equal the loss of business a guy like this can potentially cause.
You can bet the farm though, that I would post my return/refund policy BEFORE I SOLD ANOTHER KNIFE. Thereby insuring that this won't come up again. The next fumblefingered Joe that tore up a knife and wanted a free replacement could be told with no equivocation, "Sorry, you abused it, we can't replace it under those circumstances."
Actually, horizonod would do well to use your return policy as a blue print. It leaves latitude for decisions on a case by case basis IF the business owner wishes to grant that latitude. Either way, the customer can't say he wasn't warned.
------------------
Desenfundeme no sin la razón, envaineme no sin honor
Usual Suspect
Too Sexy for my shirt
MOLON LABE!
I don't know. Maybe I'm a little cynical, but it just seems that this is how things were when I was running my own business. (Gun and knife shop)
As far as his friends seeing through him.
No matter how ethical your actions are, there's always a faction that cannot be pleased unless you "hand over the inventory."
Granted, these aren't really the people you WANT as customers, but the people THEY talk to may well be exactly the folks you want.
Ideally, horizonod would have had a clear and ironclad policy upfront before this situation came up. It's much easier to resolve with standing policy, and there's usually a lot less ill will generated.
As it is though, he's stuck now and has to make a policy decision with the customer virtually standing there waiting. This is tough, and this is the kind of thing that can cause a LOT of ill will.
I didn't offer an opinion before, just offered a couple points to consider, but the way I think I'd handle this, would be to eat the cost of the knife. It's a low end SKU, not like a CTII or something and the known loss of profit probably won't equal the loss of business a guy like this can potentially cause.
You can bet the farm though, that I would post my return/refund policy BEFORE I SOLD ANOTHER KNIFE. Thereby insuring that this won't come up again. The next fumblefingered Joe that tore up a knife and wanted a free replacement could be told with no equivocation, "Sorry, you abused it, we can't replace it under those circumstances."
Actually, horizonod would do well to use your return policy as a blue print. It leaves latitude for decisions on a case by case basis IF the business owner wishes to grant that latitude. Either way, the customer can't say he wasn't warned.
------------------
Desenfundeme no sin la razón, envaineme no sin honor
Usual Suspect
Too Sexy for my shirt
MOLON LABE!
not2sharp
Platinum Member
- Joined
- Jun 29, 1999
- Messages
- 20,411
Gollnick,
You took the words right out of my mouth. I couldn't agree more. Send him the new knife, apologies for sending the "defective" knife, and let him know that you will make it right for him by personally inspecting every knife he orders from this point forward. That should get the message across without providing him with a single word that can be used against you.
Sorry to hear about this.
N2S
You took the words right out of my mouth. I couldn't agree more. Send him the new knife, apologies for sending the "defective" knife, and let him know that you will make it right for him by personally inspecting every knife he orders from this point forward. That should get the message across without providing him with a single word that can be used against you.
Sorry to hear about this.
N2S
- Joined
- May 13, 1999
- Messages
- 58
I agree the the customer is a jerk and a cheap jerk to boot. Having said that, a company that stands behind its sales, even when its unreasonable to do so, tends to get very loyal customers. IMHO replacing the knife is just part of the overhead. WHAT I WOULD DO...........is send him the knife and a letter explaining why this kind of thing happens with this quality of knife and sometime in the future he might consider XXXXXX knife with XXXXXXfeatures that you also sell. In short use it as a sales opertunity.
- Joined
- Jul 31, 2000
- Messages
- 353
Wise words all.
Here is a line from our return policy," Any returns must first be authorized by Horizon Outdoors and be returned in new condition. "
Here is the addition: We inspect orders before they are sent to make sure everything is in working order.
Please do not return items that you have damaged as "manufacturer defects".
Any returns that show signs of abuse or tampering will be returned to the buyer.
Ken. I agree that there is a slight, soon to be remedied, hole in our poilicy but even IF we had an iron clad, no doubt about, you break it you bought it policy and the guy ran over it with a truck and wanted it replaced, if we didn't, he would still tell his friends we cheated him.
We'll just grin and "bare" it.
I like the idea of giving him a free knife and letting him know in a backhanded way I know what happened but apologizing at the same time.
Who knows, someday maybe he'll break down and buy the mini switch kit for $19.95 (good luck putting that together "fumble fingers"). Then I can retire happy.:^)
Maybe I'll send him the broken one too just to remind his conscience when he sees it in his drawer.
[This message has been edited by horizonod (edited 06-23-2001).]
Here is a line from our return policy," Any returns must first be authorized by Horizon Outdoors and be returned in new condition. "
Here is the addition: We inspect orders before they are sent to make sure everything is in working order.
Please do not return items that you have damaged as "manufacturer defects".
Any returns that show signs of abuse or tampering will be returned to the buyer.
Ken. I agree that there is a slight, soon to be remedied, hole in our poilicy but even IF we had an iron clad, no doubt about, you break it you bought it policy and the guy ran over it with a truck and wanted it replaced, if we didn't, he would still tell his friends we cheated him.
We'll just grin and "bare" it.
I like the idea of giving him a free knife and letting him know in a backhanded way I know what happened but apologizing at the same time.
Who knows, someday maybe he'll break down and buy the mini switch kit for $19.95 (good luck putting that together "fumble fingers"). Then I can retire happy.:^)
Maybe I'll send him the broken one too just to remind his conscience when he sees it in his drawer.
[This message has been edited by horizonod (edited 06-23-2001).]
"Jerk!" just don't cut it for this guy.
I just added "Any knife that show signs of abuse or tampering will void the warranty."
to my warranty.
There is always someone that is not accountable for their own actions. I will not put up with that crap!
------------------
A.T.
http://www.customknives.com
If you make, sell, or just love knives and want a website with your name
customknives.com/your.name, AND a links page for $70.00 a year? Check out
http://www.customknives.com/webdesign
AKTI #476
I just added "Any knife that show signs of abuse or tampering will void the warranty."
to my warranty.
There is always someone that is not accountable for their own actions. I will not put up with that crap!
------------------
A.T.
http://www.customknives.com
If you make, sell, or just love knives and want a website with your name
customknives.com/your.name, AND a links page for $70.00 a year? Check out
http://www.customknives.com/webdesign
AKTI #476