Customer Safety, Service, etc.

J

Joe S

Joined
Jan 25, 1999
Messages
188
hey, not trying to make waves, not pointing the finger, but this was posted in rec.knives, and i think it kinda belongs here. i'm not trying to start trouble, just would like to see an unhappy customer become happy, rather than REKAT getting a bad name because of one possible flub.

quote>>
Subject: REKAT - a minor bitch
Date: 1 May 1999 00:20:12 GMT
From: greg@antizen.EBay.Sun.COM (Greg Dilley - gregory.dilley@EBay)
Organization: Sun Microsystems Inc.
Newsgroups: rec.knives


Long story shory. Bought a Pocket Hobbitt. Had it for awhile.
It was stiff-opening. I spent many hours practicing, but everytime
I tried to draw and open (when I actually needed it) it would fail,
opening half way, needing a second try.

Called Pioneer Vally Knives. They took my knife back and offered to
send me a newer model, which also had the re-worked lock button. Cool.

When I got it it was obvious I hadn't communicated. This new knife
was *really* stiff. Fine, since PVK was so cool, I took my case to
REKAT. Talked to Chris, she said I could send it back and Bob (I think
it was Bob) would work on it since *he* had a Pocket Hobbitt that
opened when you sneezed. This was the second time I'd heard about
Bob's "personal" PH. I told me about it long ago in a conversations
I had with him over the phone. Of course he was concerned about legalities
thus he refused to sell his knife etc.etc.

Well, after a week I call to find out what's up. I get a rather cranky
Bob telling me my knife was fine. I discussed it with him and he
agreed to "put some oil on it and see".

I got the knife back yesterday. Maybe a 25% improvement. And a note
from Chris (a woman) saying "I can open it so I know you can".

Well guess what folks. I want a knife that I can open if someone is
in the process of trying to kill me. Why else would I buy I knife
like that? I have a Spyderco Military that *wants* to open.

The REKAT PH is a great knife OPENED, but it doesn't want to open.

Yeah Bob, you're a tough guy, you've logged countless more hours
playing with knives than I. I'm just a lowly EMT and excuse me for
wanting a knife that is ****ing EASY to open MANY different ways.

The REKAT Pocket Hobbitt is not an easy-to-open knife. Oh, Bob's
personal one is of course, but that knife is not for us "consumers".

Thanks for working on my knife Bob, hope I didn't ****ing put you
out or anything.

Great knife btw, ONCE IT'S OPENED.....

Greg

<<unquote

Stay Sharp,
Joe S.

 
Joe S
Cranky? must have been one of those days. Concerning your knife in pitcular I can open in right or left handed reverse grip or fore grip, as can everyone here. There is a fine line between what we can sell due to laws and product liability. We made them far looser in the past and caught hell for it. They do break in with age.
Techinque is also a key and that comes with 1. Proper technique and 2 practice
Make sure your on the same line is the knife isn't cocked to one side or another is it is your disapating the force and can't open any knife.
I don't remeber telling you that you put me out or refusing to help. I think with a bt of practice and working the action there will be a lot of improvment

Bob Taylor

------------------
Some days it's not worth chewing through the restraints and escaping.
 
Just to throw in my two cents worth...

First of all, I have a Pocket Hobbit which now flicks open with no effort. Originally, however, it was tight ... it just took some breaking in.

Second, I've been quite happy with the service I've received from REKAT. I wanted a clip put on my PH, and e-mailed Bob himself. I got a response the next day and sent the little beast in. My knife was back in my waistband (clipped) in about 10 days, no questions asked.

-Fred
 
Bob,

Joe S wasn't the guy with the complaint! He simply copied the post from rec.knives. The guy, Greg Dilley, who's putting out the bad noise isn't here at all. But Joe gave you the fellas e-mail address. I'd recommend sending this whole page to him at greg@antizen.EBay.Sun.COM or gregory.dilley@EBay)



------------------
-=[Bob]=-

I did NOT escape from the institution! They gave me a day pass!

 
yup, as bald1 says, don't kill the messenger. it's not my knife, nor my message, nor my complaint. i was just pasting it in here, so you guys knew what was going on (i didn't know whther you visited Usenet or not).

actually, though it was one of "those days" or, nights rather, i'm not in a grumpy mood at all. thanks for asking, though.

any chance any of you NJ forum members might know somewhere where i could fondle a Escalator? i am interested in the kinetic opening deal.

Stay Sharp,
Joe S.
 
I purchased a pioneer folder
It was extremely tight when i first recieved it. I lubed it and worked it. Now it's the fastest opening folder i own. Simple flick is all it takes to open it now.
Cant wait for my carnivor.

Tom
 
I guess the bottom line is "Some People would bitch if you hung them with a brand new rope". Joe I wan't made at you nor am I upset with Mr. Dilley and he is a Dilley. I think Christina pissed him off and hurt his macho feelings.
There is nothing wrong with his knife or I would do somthing to replace or repair it. His lack physical ability is his problem or if what he says is true he is a EMT I wouldn't what him putting a IV in me or tubing me.
To respond further would be a waste of time and effort. I don't belive he would be happy with anything. If we respond then it appears we are trying to cover our hind ends.

Bob Taylor

------------------
Some days it's not worth chewing through the restraints and escaping.
 
All I can say is, WOW!
Bob I hope your having a bad hair day or else you have a lot to learn about customer relations. That does not seem like the proper way to talk about a customer (dis-gruntled or not) in a public forum. If I were to base a decision on whether or not to buy a REKAT knife based on Mr. Dilley's rec.knives post, and this discussion thread I can assure you my hard earned money would go to someone else.
Your last message comes across as arrogant,rude and an outright personal attack on Mr. Dilley.
Not exactly the way to prove a point to potential customers.

Paul (probably not a future customer)

------------------
Strange women lying in ponds distributing swords is no basis for a system of government

 
Sounds like Bob/REKAT did some work on that guy's knife. The guy wasn't exactly the epitomy of good grace. Sometimes the product is just not right for a particular person. In which case, nothing will make it "right". Best thing is to give him his money, say "thank you" and wipe one's hand off the whole affair.

Paul, it's okay that you don't want a REKAT. Lots of other good knives out there. But, someone else will gladly get in on a shorter line. REKATs are hot and the wait is enough without another person in line.

sing
 
Coop
I take it when your in business you take abuse from people and smile.
1. He lied or stretched the truth
Thanks for working on my knife Bob, hope I didn't ****ing put you
out or anything. No one was even slightly rude or put out. All that was asked is "Whats wrong with your knife"
As was mentioned a number of times to Mr. Dilly it will work in He asked for service and got service to our best ability with a one or two day turn adound. Then he plays plays a chicken S**** game of lieing on a public forum.
His intention was to harm REKAT. Even though he was treated with respect and extra work.
If you can be rude to me and insulting and you feel I must take it, because I need your business then I will burn this place to the ground.

Bob Taylor

------------------
Some days it's not worth chewing through the restraints and escaping.
 
Bob,

If you burn your shop to the ground, then all the people that use and enjoy your knives will be the ones that are affected.

Don't let the rantings of one person get to you. Myself and many others have only good things to say about your knives.

Keep up the good work and hold your head high.

------------------
C.O.'s-"It takes balls to work behind the walls "
 
Well...I don't even have my REKAT yet (hopefully today) and I'm happy with Mr. Taylor's service already, and I'm very hard to please when it comes to knives...just ask Benchmade. I didn't realize REKAT was in the Pacific and I called at 6:30AM their time. Oooops!!! Sorry about that guys. -AR

P.S. Bob, I got that dealer info. to my grandmother, and she's getting everything in order right now. Thanks again. -AR

------------------
- Intelligent men, unfortunately, learn from fools, more often than fools learn from intelligent men.

 
Personally, I'm tired of people expecting a certain treatment (just because they are a customer) when they act like complete aholes!! Just work one day in a customer service oriented job and you will respond differently to Bob's post on this subject. Good for you, Bob. Never let anyone cut off your balls--not even a customer!! LOL!!

jc
 
Reminds me of a guy I dealt with many years ago (Fall, 1965). He wanted a light, actually he said "very light" 12 Ga. shotgun for dove hunting. I sold him a very nice little Beretta with an aluminum frame, etc. He rejected my suggestion to buy a rubber butt pad that would extend the stock a bit as well as absorb recoil. That was on Saturday. On Monday evening he was back in the store complaining loudly that the gun kicked to much. I pointed out to him, politely, that a 12 Ga. shotgun has a lot of energy to disperse and the lighter the weapon, the harder the kick, a very obvious point to anyone who has ever fired a gun. He cried and carried on until his wife said that he should show me his bruises. Right in the middle of a very large store, he took off his shirt. He had a traditional tank-type undershirt and I could see bruises all up and down his arm from the shoulder to the elbow! I asked him how he shouldered the gun and he threw it up, resting the stock on his bicep! Anyone who has fired a weapon can see the problem, but this guy could not. It was the gun's fault. I tried, the manager tried, but to no avail. The guy insisted on his money back. Well, at teh time, the price of the gun was, maybe, $75, so we finally gave up and bought it back. He went off griping about us and about Beretta, probably still is today.

------------------
Walk in the Light,
Hugh
 
Hugh,

Great Story.
smile.gif
You still have any Berettas for $75 by any chance...
wink.gif


sing

 
Sing
You beat me to it. I will take a few at that price, quite a few in fact.

Bob Taylor

------------------
Some days it's not worth chewing through the restraints and escaping.
 
I said that it was the Fall OF 1965. I had finished college in August and the draft board sent me a love letter. But they could not take me for my physical until December, so I had time to kill, since nobody would take seriously for a job with that hanging over me. The store needed me through Christmas, which was perfect. The model was a VERY light and inexpensive low-liner that they had at that time. It had an aluminum frame and I don't know what else. Actually, I wish that I had bought one while I had the chance. Instead, I bought a Savage 110-MCL, a left handed bolt action in .30-06. I love it!

------------------
Walk in the Light,
Hugh
 
Bob,

We're still in your corner!

I'm definately in the queue for one of those Talonite Carnivores. I haven't had the pleasure of handling any of your products (I'm in the boonies with no local dealer carrying your stuff), but when Rob Simonich says he's impressed, that's all I needed to hear.

Hugh,

Maybe a tad off topic but I love it when I read someone else is a Savage fan. I recently dumped my Remington 700VS with Shilen trigger and a few tweaks in favor of the new short action Savage 10FP (Tactical Police)... both in 308 WIN. I upgrade from a Leupold 4.5-14x40 tactical to a 4.5-14x50 longrange tactical mildot. How does 0.385" with factory fodder out of the box strike you
smile.gif
? Definately a keeper!

-=[Bob]=-
 
Bob
First off. Yes I was in business for almost 20 years and during that time I took plenty of abuse from rude and possibly less than honest customers. I may not have smiled at them, but I did do everything I could to maintain a professional attitude toward them. Even though inside I would have liked nothing more than to toss them head first out my front door. (just like the good old days in Dodge City)
I felt that If I lowered myself to the same tactics that the rude customer was using I would be viewed by others (customers in my store or people close to my tables at a gun show) as no better than the rude customer.
I'm sorry if I rubbed you the wrong way but your comments, and I quote. ( "Some People would bitch if you hung them with a brand new rope", "I think Christina pissed him off and hurt his macho feelings", "His lack physical ability is his problem or if what he says is true he is a EMT I wouldn't what him putting a IV in me or tubing me.") came across as less than professional.

Again I hope you understand where I'm coming from.
As someone on the outside looking in this is the chain of events from my point of view.

1. I read Mr. Dilley's post on rec.knives

2. I read a couple of other posts about PH's being stiff when new.

3. I read Joe S's post stating that he was going to repost Mr. Dilley's post here.

4. I read this forum and see you call Mr.Dilley a whiner and go on to run down his manhood , his physical ability, and his ability to perform his job.

5. I post to this forum with my feelings as to how it looks to me, an outsider.

6. You respond to me saying Mr.Dilley is a liar or at least a truth stretcher. And follow up with comments about burning your business to the ground before taking money from rude and insulting people. Of which you may think I am.

I have no way of knowing if Mr.Dilley is stretching the truth or really expected something completely different than what he bought. It is quite possible that there is no legal knife in this country that will work the way he wants. I'm sure if I were to ask Mr.Dilley his point of view it would be that he was sold a red herring. While your point of view is that Mr.Dilley is one of those customers that just cannot be pleased, no way, no how.

I think Sing was correct in his post about the best way to deal with Mr.Dilley is to arrange a refund and wash your hands of him. Although what you do as far as Mr.Dilley and his knife are concerned is your business and not for myself or anyone else to say.

All I was trying to say from the beginning was simply that as an outsider who has heard a lot of good things about your products. Mr.Dilley's post caught my attention and I decided to follow it. And after following it, if I were to look at it as John Q. Knifebuyer trying to decide where to spend my money I would be concerned that if there would be a problem with my purchase customer support would be less than helpful.

If you feel that I have been rude and insulting I apologize for that was not my intent.

It is quite obvious by the number of posts to this and other forums that you have many satisfied and most often repeat customers.

Now that all that is said and it looks like this discussion is leaning to gun stories let me tell you about the Remington 870 I recently bought.

It was a Sunday afternoon eight weeks ago at a new Gander Mountain store near my home. I was just browsing with no intention of buying anything that day I had my two young sons with me and we were just killing time. Then as I was looking over their used gun rack I notice a Remington 870 Express Super Magnum 3-1/2" 12 gauge 21-1/2" VT rib turkey gun w/ synthetic stocks. The tag says that it is a used gun and the price is $260.00 ( I found out later that someone had bought this gun but when they got it home noticed a tiny machine mark on the top of the receiver, brought the gun back to the store and pitched a hissy fit until they gave him his money back. sound familiar) On the next rack the exact same gun new is $300.00. I had been thinking about one of these and this unexpected deal made up my mind. To make a long story short I bought it. While wading through the pile of paperwork that goes with a firearm purchase and trying to keep my kids patient. I did not notice that when another helpful clerk showed up to lend a hand to the one I was dealing with by ringing up the sale while we completed the paperwork made a mistake. The problem was that he scanned the bar code on the box rather than the one on the hang tag on the gun there by over charging me $40.00. To compound the problem I did not realize this until I had returned home.
I called the store and explained the problem and was told no problem just bring the gun and all paperwork back and we can straighten everything out.
The next morning I go back to the store and stop at the customer service desk like I was told to do. While I am explaining what happened to the person at the desk another employee comes over looks through my papers and asks what the problem is. So I show him the used gun purchase form that the first clerk filled out complete with serial# and price of gun, and then the register receipt that shows I was charged new gun price. At this point he informs me that this is NOT a used gun it is new and I was charged the correct price, and just what am I trying to pull. This did not sit well with me but I bit my tongue and asked him who he was and how he could tell that it was a new gun when he had not even looked inside the box. He informed me that he was the assistant store manager and the fact that the gun was in a box proved it was a new gun because used guns do not have boxes. The paperwork I had did not mean anything to him as far as he was concerned that was doctored and I was trying to pull a fast one on the store. Lucky for me that the manager of the gun dept. picked this time to show up and set Mr.assistant manager straight. Mr. Assistant manager immediately started to rant at the gun manager about inventory problems and such and finally stormed off. I got my refund and a great gun.

Now please let me pose one last question. Who do you think gave a better impression to the customers in the store that witnessed this episode, The assistant manager or the gun dept manager?

And one last time Bob please forgive me if I offended you that was not my intent.

Paul

one last thing to Hugh and Bald1 ditto on the Savage feelings I have a 112fv in .223 one nice little ragged hole at 100yds day after day

 
Coop
How is giving your opnion insulting? My feelings were and still are the Mr. Dilly is one of those who are never satisfied and does not listen. He was given prompt professional service and both myself and Christina talked at length to him. There was nothing wrong with his knife and we was told that. At shows I watch so called savey knife people trying to snap open knives, only to be ducking when the lose it and a half open knife or full open goes flying.
It was explained to Mr. Dilly that I can open his knife with either hand is any grip and it was his technique. Christina is my final test here. Read his post he acts like he was mistreated and abused. Thats the lie. Anyone who has called for service is treated with respect and we do what is neccesary to correct the problem ASAP. And yes there is some people who would bitch if you hung them with a new rope, they will never be satisfied. One of Christina's mistake is telling them how my knives operate also I have been doing this (martial arts and knives for 40 years) Can he or most do what I do no.
If Mr. Dilly were to of called back and bitched again he would have been treated again with respect and given the same service. To go to a forum and bitch with out trying to solve a problem was a bit off the scale to me.
Did he mention that I stoped everything and spent 45 minutes working his knife? did he mention that I spent 20 minutes explaining technique (hard to teach knife technique on the phone)
And yes I do belive he was put out that a girl told him "if she could do it then he should be able to" if not then why mention she was "a girl"
So lets add this up he gets two diffrent knives, gets excelent service, gets personal attention and then insults all those that tried to help him by going behind everyones back like a pouting 6 year old and bad raps everyone in a obscure forum whic I still haven read his post.
Did I over react, maybe a tad. If his post didn't contain the following.

"Yeah Bob, you're a tough guy, you've logged countless more hours
playing with knives than I. I'm just a lowly EMT and excuse me for
wanting a knife that is ****ing EASY to open MANY different ways."

"Thanks for working on my knife Bob, hope I didn't ****ing put you
out or anything."

I might have reacted a bit less negative. Why because, I don't treat people the way he claims and I didn't treat him that way

Bob Taylor

------------------
Some days it's not worth chewing through the restraints and escaping.
 
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