Customer Safety, Service, etc.

As with any arguement that you are not part of it all comes down to who puts forth the most credible story. Bob you have repeatily attacked Greg and others in this thread and I have no difficulty in believing his original post to rec.knives based on how hostile you have been in this thread. Your behavior of personal attacks

going behind everyones back like a pouting 6 year old
Click to expand...

is directly against the Bladeforums rules and would not be tolerated if you were just a member nor should it be tolerated just because you are a moderator. The customer probably posted to rec.knives instead to Bladeforums simply because rec.knives is far older and much more well known and he obviously could not get what he considered satisfactory service from you and wanted to warn others.

-Cliff
 
One of the things I have a problem with in this thread is we're not armed with a lot of first hand information from one side.

Here are the facts as I see them:<ol>[*] Greg ordered a PH. The one he got didn't open easy enough for him.
[*]He sent it back to PVKT, who replaced it with a newer version of the knife. This new knife apparently wasn't good enough either.
[*]He then sent this knife to REKAT, who worked on the knife even more. Greg admitted there was "about a 25% improvement" in the knife, still not good enough by his standards.
[*]Instead of contacting REKAT back to express his displeasure, he posts his message to a public forum.</LI>[/list=a]

Now, from REKAT's POV, here is what we know:<OL>[*]Bob took this knife back and worked on it
[*]Bob found that this knife was free of mechanical defects, and adjusted the knife so that it was looser.
[*]Both Bob and Chris could open the knife easily.
[*]Bob and Chris talked at length with Greg about opening the knife. Bob mentions that this person was interested in snapping the knife open or some other technique.</LI>[/list=a]

To me, it appears that there is a whole bunch of panty twisting over what is between Bob and his customer.

Both Bob and Greg confirm that the knife was worked on. Greg still wasn't happy after 1. a new knife, and 2. the knife after it had been worked on, and instead of trying to resolve it, he complained.

Bob says that he treated Greg with respect. Greg says he was mistreated. Bob feels that Greg is a liar. After reading all this, I'm inclined to agree with Bob, especially since more than once I've been talking with him and he's interrupted me to talk customer service with someone who had a problem. I've listened to him admit when he's wrong, and offer to do what he can to fix the problem. I feel that is what he did here, and Greg still wasn't happy.

My personal take on this is that Coop and Cliff are reading more into this thread than there needs to be.

Greg got good customer service first from PVK, and then from REKAT. I find it hard to believe that he cannot open the knife using the thumbstud when Bob says that he can open it in a forward or reverse grip, right or left handed. I furthermore find it hard to believe the Chris can do the same thing, and yet Greg cannot. If he can't open it using the thumbstud, especially after the knife has been worked on, I feel there is something else wrong other than the knife itself.

If Greg is trying to open the knife through flicking, then all bets are off. He's trying to get the knife to do something that it wasn't designed for, and isn't happy when it doesn't do it.

Here's what I want to know: How exactly is he trying open the knife? Thumbstud or flicking? Why didn't he contact REKAT again after he was shown that they not only were willing to work on the knife, but discussed with him at length different techniques?

Who has the most credible story? Right now, I see it as Bob, clear and simple. Having worked in customer service, and seeing what Bob's done to try to make this guy happy, and watching Greg turn around and post this smacks of "Sour Grapes" to me.

If there is other information that I do not know, please feel free to fill me in, but this is what I've seen and feel.

Spark

------------------
Kevin Jon Schlossberg
SysOp and Administrator for BladeForums.com

Insert witty quip here


[This message has been edited by Spark (edited 04 May 1999).]
 
There ain't nothing worse than a customer that you give your all for, and then turns around and talks crap about you. I have dealt with them in many different fields, and it is the most difficult thing to keep your temper when horrible customers are out and about talking smack. Bob is well withing his rights to use descriptive metaphors like "go behind everybodies back pouting like a six year old" when that is essentially what the guy did. Bob wasn't rude. His language wasn't offensive. Bob didn't say crap like "****ing put you out"...

This crap about the customer always being right has to end. It isn't true. 9 times out of 10, the customer is clueless. This goes for if you are a mechanic, guide, or knifemaker. Nothing thrills me more than serving a knolwedgeable customer, one that understands what I am saying and doing, and appreciates what work I am doing for them. Nothing pisses me off than one that **thinks** he is knowledgable telling me how I should do my job.

Adding insult to injury is others showing up talking smack about how I have mishandled a situation. I am sure if someone had walked in my store one night and heard me telling this guy to "kiss off!" on the phone and then my slamming the phone down, they might have been a little upset to see me treat a customer like that. They didn't hear the guy making threats, telling me that he was going to have my job because I didn't jump to changing his tires over 20 minutes before my shop closed. They didn't hear the stream of cursing that he was spewing.

If someone was to be so short sighted I probably wouldn't want to have to deal with them anyways..

YeK
 
All this talk of know-it-all customers makes me think of a story I once heard of a sport fisherman going up to Alaska to fish a salmon stream. Now Grizzlies also fish salmon streams, so the guide asked the man if he had a heavy caliber handgun for bear protection. The man replied that he would never shoot a poor, harmless bear, that he had capsicum bear repellant. The pilot/guide dropped him at a good sand bar and went on to drop his other customers off. On his way back, he flew over to check on each of them and saw the first one lying on the sand bar, thrashing around. He landed to see if the man had been attacked by a bear, capsicum spray or not. Turned out he had confused his bear spray for mosquito spray. That hurts!

Can't vouch for the truth, but it makes a good story.

------------------
Walk in the Light,
Hugh
 
Great story actaully!

I have many customers who deal with me personally on a regular basis. My main philosophy on customer service is that the customer is NOT always right and they must be corrected. The manner to correct them depends on the customer but I have even cursed a customer out, and I mean with some really foul language and they still buy from me today. Why? Because I was right and they new damn well they were wrong.

Don't get me wrong here. I will bend over backwards to help a customer. What I wont do is set a precedent with a jerk and let him run me over.

I own a major business in this industry and I also own this forum. If I piss off a customer for no reason I know they can hop in here and really pounce on me. Heck we even have "The Good, The Bad and The Ugly" Forum were someone can really have some fun.

The point here is that we as businessmen really try hard to make customers happy. You just simply can't please everyone all the time. It seems to me that attempts were made to help this guy but he felt he did not get the service he deserved.

Maybe Bob does not offer the level of service this guy wanted.

Maybe the level of service this guy wanted does not exist.

What's the problem?

Either way it is a problem which is not necessary on this forum.

So let's drop it and move on.

------------------
Best Regards,
Mike Turber
BladeForums Site Owner and Administrator
Do it! Do it right! Do it right NOW!
www.wowinc.com




 
Spark, what has been said here is not enough for example to make me not want to buy from REKAT. However, it certainly does not make me want to buy from them.

As for your comments Mike about cursing at customers and such, hey, whatever works for you. I would hope however you are not endorsing such behavior on the forums - which was the main point I was making. How Bob handles a phone call is one thing. How he behaves here is another - unless of course you want to give moderators special rights, which of course you can as you are running the site.

-Cliff
 
Cliff,

I think you missed my point. I read this whole thread and fail to see anything Bob has done which would be construed as a personal attack (My main rule). Maybe the "going behind everyone's back and pouting like a 6 year old" is but it is very minor.

I did not infer that I curse at every person who calls. I simply stated that one particular customer pushed the line to far and I reacted. This shut him up dead on the spot. He was one of those customers who is always trying to get something for nothing and we had done enough of that before and the **** had to stop and a precedent set right then. I got on the phone and politely told him that he would not get what he wanted. He got angry and I then told him to go buy from someone else and that I did not want his business. He furthered his argument and then I dropped the bomb, called his bluff, proved he was a liar and guess what, he still buys from us to this very day.

It is not my policy to cuss out customers. It is my policy to not get trampled on.

------------------
Best Regards,
Mike Turber
BladeForums Site Owner and Administrator
Do it! Do it right! Do it right NOW!
www.wowinc.com




 
Mike, just becuase I don't agree with you does not mean I don't understand what you are saying, it just means that I think you are wrong. I don't think the level of response you described is necessary or productive, but like I said, whatever works for you

As for the other issue, if you don't think there is anything wrong with the tone - fine, it is your site. Just remember that you have now endorsed it and critizing someone else for that level of behavior in the future would be a little less than just.

-Cliff
 
Cliff, we just stated that we felt that it's a minor issue. It's a judgement call on our parts.

You don't like it, fine, we respect your opinion. However, we can and will enforce our rules, and if we feel something is out of line, we will take action on it. If we feel something is minor, we'll overlook it. We're not some policy bound committee where we have to stand on every inch of protocol, making sure everything I is dotted, and every T is crossed, we're more laid back.

We feel that this matter is between Bob and his customer. Ideally this matter never should have been brought up at all here, since the customer himself didn't open it up.

But, it was brought up, and Bob responded to it. You aren't happy with how he responded, that's fine. Mike and I both happen to agree with Bob, and several other members can relate to this type of situation.

The key point is that this isn't your business anymore than it's our business, Cliff. It was brought up on these forums, yes, however how Bob does his customer service is his affair. We feel that his response was pretty mild, on the scheme of things, unlike some of the others we've seen. He said that he went out of his way to be respectful to this customer, worked on his knife, and the guy turned around and slammed him publically. I personally feel that Bob's response was pretty mild; I would have detailed everything and made sure that my side was presented in rich detail. Bob didn't do this, his choice.

We made our decision. We stand behind what Bob has said. In the future (and in the past) there have been times where we disagreed with what's been said, and took action. This time we don't feel it's warranted. That's part of what judgement calls are all about. You don't have to like it, but it doesn't effect you. Someone is always going to be unhappy with any decision.
IIRC last time we took action against someone, you didn't like it either. You can't have it both ways, Cliff.

Spark

------------------
Kevin Jon Schlossberg
SysOp and Administrator for BladeForums.com

Insert witty quip here
 
Spark :

The key point is that this isn't your business anymore than it's our business, Cliff.
Click to expand...

I was commenting mainly on how Bob responded which is my business as he, like me, I assume, is under the same posting rules.

You can't have it both ways, Cliff.
Click to expand...

As in you can't sanction and not sanction the same person for the same action, sure. But you obviously can take two different courses of action in two different situations.

-Cliff
 
May I make a request? Please let it go, guys. This has gone on entirely too long and is getting entirely too personal on all sides.

------------------
Walk in the Light,
Hugh
 
Sounds like a plan to me.

Cliff, if you want a more in depth breakdown on why we do what we do, the way that we do it, please feel free to contact me via email, and I'll be happy to debate it with you until we're both blue in the face.

Spark

------------------
Kevin Jon Schlossberg
SysOp and Administrator for BladeForums.com

Insert witty quip here
 
WOW! If I got this right, I think this started out as a "problem" with a Pocket Hobbit. It sure degenerated into a treatse on customer relations and forum rules, not to mention Savage rifles (which I like very much BTW).

As far as the customer relations and forum rules are concerned... I don't even want to go there. You guys beat that up pretty thoroughly.

As for the knife. Anyone who can't open a PH, especially after it's been tuned up by Bob, is probably too uncoordinated to operate a serious knife anyway. Maybe he should switch to a rubber blade before he hurts himself. (He'll probably sue if he does hurt himself.)

As for defense... Advice: Stay away from places where people who might want to hurt you hang out.

------------------
Isn't it amazing how 2 cents worth of opinion takes up a quarter's worth of paper???

Please excuse the crayon. They won't let us have anything sharp in here.
wrightknife@ixpres.com

 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top