• Happy Hannukah, Merry Christmas, and Happy New Year to all of you! Thanks for your continued support and I hope that your holiday season is a blessed one.

Cut the crap test your knives try in a real jungle ......

Kevin "Mad Dog" McNugget is also a loud-mouthed blowhard. But that's okay guys, we can take him under our wing, teach him to relax and get real, maybe even to take the bug out of his puckered butt. Then he can interact with us in a healthy manner, and contibute meaningfuly to conversations.

It's not his fault he's sooo aloof. He just doesn't have much to say, so he makes up for it by flapping his jaw. He wants to impart wisdom to us for the benefit of all mankind, but unfortunately doesn't realize that volume doesn't equal truth.

Yup, McNugget tells it like it is, he makes it quite clear that he's nothing more than a loud-mouthed blowhard with nothing meaningful to say.

Bob, I understand what you're going through. I want you to know, I don't judge you man. I can put you in touch with groups that can help you sever your dependence on this cult.

Yes. I am an a$$hole, but at least I admit it, and more importantly, "realize" I am.
I dunno, guess we'll have to wait and see if "Amazon Expert" makes any false promises, or responds to criticism with taunts and offensive behavior. And of course whether he can get this thread locked or folks kicked off the board. I doubt he will, so I guess he can't fill those shoes

Oh, Corduroy, you done it now... I told ya not to post after 3 AM!


(Why else would a bear want a pocket?)
I didn't find the lead post in the least offensive; it seems fairly sound advice about many products in general, knives in particular. I would love to see some mud on all those SUVs I see everywhere, but most of them will never be put to the test. And thank goodness, because the majority of the people driving them have a hard enough time negotiating the streets of San Francisco, I am sure they would roll them within 100 yards of leaving the pavement. Talk about timing, I just saw an ad for the “Escalade”, literally the Cadillac of SUVs.

I put my knives to the test every day while working, that is their intended purpose. I like to collect knives that are both esthetically pleasing and functional, and always carry a solidly built folder, which suits my needs. I base my purchases on this criteria, and my evaluations and opinions on my experiences. That seems to be what our newest Expert is doing as well, so I am willing to read and evaluate his opinions in that light.

And I certainly can’t point fingers as far as Forum Names or thread titles go. After all, no one called me a heretic for badly quoting scripture in the “Yeah, verily” thread earlier this week, or has ever commented on my self-anointed Sainthood. I thought that was a one-two combo begging for trouble, but I have never had any negative comments directed towards me on this forum, at least.

Okay, name calling isn't proper. I'm sorry for making fun of you Bob. Let's not turn this into a flame thread. All flaming should be done back in the thread in "the good, bad and ugly" forum, or on McNugget's own forum.

I hope we didn't run-off Amazon.
Hello guys.
Sorry for interruption.
I*m new member and I am from Croatia, Europe.
I am expecting a CS Trailmaster (San Mai III) next week. Also will go camping to some woods here in my country (big ones).
Just one question:
What I have to do to test my CS ?
I am not well expirienced with long blades.
Can you help me ?
Thanks and sorry for language mistakes.


The language is fine. No interuption at all.

The best way to test a knife is to use it for what you intend to do with it. That's kinda what Amazon was saying. Sound advice.

I like big knives, they give you more edge to work with. They also chop better. On something single edged like a Trail Master, you can choke up on the blade for fine work too. Still, I always pack my pocket knife in addition to my Project 1.

Best advice I can give you is play with it a lot. Get a feel for how big it is and how it likes to be used. Chop up a log or something to see how it bites the wood. If you're a hunter, dress your game with it.

The more you work with the knife, the more you'll learn about it.
I see no real point of testing in a "jungle" as I can't see me in one in the near future.

The reason that most people do rope and wood cutting tests (and similar) is simply because they have actual day jobs and can't take a vacation everytime they get a new knife and go camping. So they have to try and simulate the effects. As Joe pointed out though, very rarely can you learn everything this way and often you will get surprised.

Standard tests like this do have one other advantage though besides ease of doing them and that is that they are repeatable by someone reading what you write. If I cut up 10 feet of hard poly rope and describe how the knife cuts and how the edge holds up, someone else can easily repeat this with one of their knives and get a very feel for how the knife I am describing performs even if they don't have it. If I instead describe how it held up in the jungle, there are few people who would be able to do the same thing.

That being said, I like reading "jungle" type reviews as well. For the actual reason that odds are that I will never be in a rainforest so its interesting to read how blades react to that enviroment. Both types of reviews are interesting for different reasons.

Snickersnee, makes a good point, and Joe and others have said it before. Long term use is very important. Often you can get a knife that performs very strongly initially but later develops severe problems and quickly turns into a lemon.

Once again, Bravo Mr. Stamp. Some how if I ever get to meet you I am sure I will like you. (I should be hovering around booth 49 at the Blade Show).
For me any tests done on any knife is valuable for data. I would enjoy reading about jungle tests as much as how many of Jim Marchs knives made it through his last motorcycle wreck

I know that when I first heard about Mr. McClungs blades and the indestructable deadly nature of these expensive blades I was puzzled. You see, the only knife that I have ever seen that has actually taken more than one human life is a $25.00 kit knife, had a squre block handle (not a nice curvy steak knife handle), and probably my six year old couldn't do a chin up on it. Cliff would have destroyed this knife in 15 minutes during one of his tests ! You got me why the owner is still a live and atleast 5 others dead! (Oh, he used an e-tool to dig holes, I do know that)

Lay on some knowledge!!


Thanks for support Snick.

I decided that next week during 3 days in woods will cut, chop, stab and prune everything I can reach with my CSTM.
After that I*ll report you about everything happened so we could see what CSTM can do to deep continental European woods and vice versa.

Hey Snickersnee,
Just to be fair, don't you think it's inappropriate to apologize for name-calling while in the same post refering to Mr. McClung as "McNugget?" There seem to be some very good reasons to attack Mr. McClung's work and his promises, but leave a fellow's name alone, OK?


(Why else would a bear want a pocket?)
Cliff, thanks. You articulated something that I was thinking about last night about this thread. While it's nice to be able to test every knife in the environment and conditions and usage that we might intend for it, sometimes that can't be easily or practically achieved. I live in Michigan, in an outdoor enviroment probably similar to where Cliff lives, in some respects. When will I be in a jungle? Heck, I only make it into the desert southwest every several years or so, so running off to the jungle every time I buy a knife is more than a bit difficult.

However, I can get some idea how my Busse, for example, can chop and hollow banana trees for a water source by hacking up a bunch of two-by-fours, and see how easily the knife digs into the wood, how well the edge lasts, and how well the edge geometry allows for the wood to "chip" out instead of grabbing the blade.

I work in the plastics field, and we have specific standardized tests to determine how a material performs relative to other materials in the same standardized test. Cutting rope and chopping two-by-fours is sort of the same thing. It allows us to determine, even if not exactly or precisely, how a knife performs relative to another knife at the relatively same task or test.

Application testing (for plastics) or real field testing (for knives) is the "proof in the pudding" for real world performance, but I don't think that some of the standard tests that people have been using should be discarded. If anything, they should be standardized to a specific format or testing protocol, but only as a basic characterization screening. Field testing is icing on the cake.

I think Cliff is doing a good job with his testing. He explains what he is doing, exactly how, and why, and then how the knife performs. All of his testing gives me a good idea what I can expect, or not expect, from a knife during actual use. If Amazon and Cliff both test the same model of knife, from both of their viewpoints and testing expectations, that would be the real deal.

stjames, I liked your analogy to testing sport futility vehicles in the real world that most people use them. "The Yada Yada XLTS performs well on rough washboard roads, but deep sand makes the front end tend to wash out and blah, blah, blah." More like, "The Yada Yada XLTS can carry six kids easily to soccer practice, has plenty of room for their gear bags, and the mud from their cleats wash easily from the carpeting. Its 40 cubic feet of cargo space allows for extended trips to the antique market or the mall, blah blah, blah."

Don LeHue

The pen is mightier than the sword...outside of arm's reach. Modify radius accordingly for rifle.

I came back to check on this thread, to see what new info. had been generated, and if Amazon had posted any new info., including whether he was Jeff Randall with a dif. email for the forum.

I chuckled at some of the responses and got info. from some of the others, but do not see how the relatively innocuous thread generated so much excitement. I agree with TKnife and St.James, that some of the responses seem to overreact. Of course I admit to a chuckle or two, so this is not a complaint. Amazon may feel diferently.

The only thing controversial at all may be his title, and it served the purpose of getting attention and conveying a sense of the points he raised. I look forward to more discussion of the points he raised. I would specifically be interested in a discussion of the practical aspects of a saw versus a machete or large knife, for use in the jungle.

The following is posted at the request of Jeff Randall:

Hi Donald,
I have never posted to Bladeforums and would appreciate it if you would post this message for me stating that this person posting as Amazon Expert is not me. I claim no expert status on anything although our specialty is in jungle operations. All the 'Amazon Experts' that I know of live in the jungles of Peru and have no idea what the word 'internet' means. Anyone wishing to contact me directly about this matter can do so at jeff@jungletraining.com or info@jungletraining.com Thanks for the info and the kind words and be sure to check our page out at http://www.jungletraining.com

Jeff Randall
Randall's Adventure & Training

**I did not know the proper code to make the email link "hot" so I did not experiment.
Since I am not near a jungle, I try to test my knives while visiting Amazon.com. That's about as close I am going to get, unfortunately.



Clay Fleischer

"My redneck past is nipping at my heels..." -BF5
An expert is anyone at least 100 miles from home with a briefcase. I have backpacked through several jungles, desserts, swamps, and tundra on three different continents, Worked with both native and military survial instructors on living off the land. I do not consider myself an expert on anything.I have a lot of usful knowledge,some I remember some I forget, due to lack of everyday use.
I know there are on this forum many people with skills and knowledge beyond mine and many with much less. I have no time for arrogant jargon no matter how qualified the person. It has been in my experience that the person with the most arrogance usually has the least to back it up. Not knowing this person I can form no first hand opinion.
I would however be more than happy to let him take point on my next land mine expidition.

The ass is a most capable and noble beast much maligned by those who do not know him.
But, even those of us who value his help resent his noxious bray.



"Cet animal est tres mechant;quand on l'attaque il se defend."("This animal is very mischievous: when it is attacked it defends itself")

Yes, it is a little hippo-critical to apologize for name calling and then call McKulng McNugget. I'm sorry, this guy is just like a 3 ring circus to me, it's hard for me to take him seriously. I will attempt to refrain from calling him McNugget in the future.

I'm gonna go out on a limb and suggest that Amazon didn't really mean to test your knives in a jungle if you don't live/work in one. I think he was just trying to drop a hint that he was a jungle guide or something.

Hey Snick,
No appologies needed.
Where did you insult me anyway? But yes McNugget needs to stop. I think your encroaching on trademark rights with McDonalds.

Well, It does look like I was wrong about Amazon. He is no MD! Looks like a one post wonder. And here is a person (kurdy) who would like some info that is up Amazons alley and who ain't responden? Now poor kurdy has to get info from Cliff. Poor poor kurdy.
Don't worry though guys I'm not insulted. I can allways count on everyone here at BF to show their trueside only to cover it later with politicaly correct appologies.
No blood, no fowl.

The spirit grows, strength is restored by wounding
Okay I decided to sign up on Bladeforums in defense of my name here. This a--hole that drew me into this is more than likely some high-dollar 'survival instructor' I pissed on during the 'walking the walk' editorial on our site. After several emails to Don (who BTW was the only one who decided to ask before assuming it was me) and the group's administrator I doubt if he can post here again (at least not under that name). As I told Don, I stand behind the article that was posted by 'Amazon Expert' from our web site, but resent the fact that he has used our web site in his/her profile and using the name of expert in an attempt to piss off the masses. Anyone who has worked, traveled or knows me also knows I resent those that call themselves experts just because they know a subject 'reasonably' well.

Randall's Adventure & Training

Sorry it took an A**hole to get you to the forum but that aside. Welcome.

It is always good to have an SME to ask questions of.