Cutlery Science?

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nathan310

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I have been looking at this site called cutlery science and I'm starting to wonder if it isn't a little biased.

First of all every review isn't the same some give a over view at the end and some don't.

He seems to put certain knives through extrememly rigorus test like the small sebenza and report how bad they did.

While not listing the results of that same test(like cutting open a can of food) done on other knives.

Is he doing the same tests on every knife and not listing them?

He has many more tests of spyderco. than any other knife and they're always a good review.

Don't get me wrong I love spydies I just don't think they're better than a sebenza.

He did a test of a mini ritter and said he didn't perform the tests he did with other knives because that type of steel(s30v) chips and he didn't want that to happen.

Well that and the uk penknife both have s30v and he tested that and gave reasons at the end why you should use it.

http://www.cutleryscience.com/reviews/small_sebenza.html

Check out a couple of his reviews and see what you think.

Make sure to look at a couple spyderco. reviews compared to other knives.
 
Sounds like Cliff Stamp pseudo science. A hidden agenda of some sort buried under lot's of verbiage. He finally managed to talk himself into being banned here.
 
As far as I can see in that review, Sebenza did pretty good in cutting which is very clear from the result charts. So, what hidden agenda are we talking about?
 
You have to read those reviews and tests very carefully. There are things he does that are easily missed or misunderstood that have a large bearing on the results. For example, he gave the small Sebenza some bad marks for edge durability in some tests. But hidden in all the talk (or at least just stated in passing) is the fact that he had sharpened the blade to something like 6 or 8 degrees per side, and then cut plywood across the grain. That is a smaller included angle than a straight razor! Who actually uses a straight razor to cut plywood across the grain? We're not talking about utility knife razor blades, we're talking about straight razors used for shaving.

The point made was that another blade sharpened to a similar angle (O1 steel, if I recall correctly) fared much better. That may be so, but it is not especially surprising given the properties of O1 vs S30V (much finer grain, and tougher). But in the mean time, Chris Reeve gets a bad name because someone heavliy modified a Sebenza and then put it through things that most people would not even consider.
 
Please be advised that Mr. Stamp has a history here at BFC and a bad one at that. He has his fan boys and critics. He is no longer a member here and with good reason. Take anything you read from that site with a grain of salt and not as gospel. Do not base your decision to buy or not buy based on his reviews.
 
From what I've seen and read? Nope.

Let me rephrase that....

There are fan boys, haters, and critics. There's your middle of the road.
 
I take his reviews as entertainment....some were useful....like the fiskars axe and the battle mistress review....also made me want to buy a HI...SOMETHING :p some of the reviews are good even though they're not perfect obviously. I DO agree that there are some that are outright rediculous. I DO agree that the sebenza is MUCH better than he reviewed and I personally LOVE it...and I DO really like the Spyderco's but his reviews on many of the knives should be taken for the entertainment value. You CAN tell how well some of the knives held up though and that IS useful ;)
 
Thanks for the link. Frankly, I kinda miss Cliff as his comments added spice, albeit not to everyone's taste.
 
Always remember reading anyones so called science or reviews about any knife whether it be here or from another site that in the end regardless of how factual it may sound all of these tests and reviews are nothing more than an opinion about one knife during one limited test.

I have tested a lot of knives over the last few years for more than one manufacturer and even a couple makers. At times, I have seen knives here, sometimes as many as three of the very same model in the very same steel, and each one gets a unique and different review because each one is a separate entity. They can be close but you can't judge the whole barrel by one bad apple. If one has a faulty lock it does not sour the whole barrel in other words. Its only means one knife of that model had a bad lock. Same with a dull blade, a thick blade, off bevel angle, uncentered blade when closed, a blade that breaks or chips during testing or anything else. Many of these things are unique to the one knife you tested in one brief moment in time. And of course you have to also think about any modifications done before testing. This alone takes away any chance that a 'true' review of the product being tested can even be given. In my mind that nullifies most results someone wanting that particular model would want to know because their knife will not be the same thing at all now should they buy it and not even close. At least left as it came you can get some idea of what to expect.


STR
 
I have read through the site a few times just to broaden some of my knowledge, but as I was thought one should not always take one persons opinion to hart, but rather question an opinion to broaden your knowledge even further. If that makes sense?
 
Andy_L said:
I question his science, so do most of the scientists I know
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In general, a true scientist always questions "things", even those that are generally considered to be obvious and widely accepted as unquestionable. Otherwise we'd still be happily living in the flat world that rests on three elephants or something like that. It's not religion to take it w/o questioning. And that IMHO applies to both, Cliff's experiments, knife makers/manufacturers and everything else.

I don't know how many actual scientists went to cliff's site and questioned him or his methods, but if that happens that'd be only positive.

As far as Cliff's site and his reviews, IMHO a lot of ppl tend overestimate and then get overly upset with his results involving their favorite knife.

Don M said:
But hidden in all the talk (or at least just stated in passing) is the fact that he had sharpened the blade to something like 6 or 8 degrees per side
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Unless we're talking about different reviews edge grind is plainly stated for all the blades involved in experiment, same font, same color, etc. Why would that qualify as hidden?
In the same sebenza/plywood experiment he clearly stated that the goal was to compare radically different steel behaviors. So, you draw your conclusions from that. It is the info provided for free. And nobody says U have to agree with conclusions or repeat his experiment. Or even that U have to grind your knife in the same way...
Ok, Sebenza took more damage at low angle compared to different steels. You can get upset because your favorite chipped at 6 deg or make a note that you won't sharpen it to 6 per side.

I'm planing to sharpen my custom Yanagi once it arrives to 12-14deg, since it's a single bevel that's an included angle and if I didn't have info from other guys who already did it Id' have to experiment and may be ruin the edge once or twice. I was told that at lower angles it chips easily despite it's 65HRC hardness. Should I get upset with that guy? I just said thanks for the info, since I know lower limit. that's all.
 
Why doesn't he show how every knife he tests does against a can of food?

Why does he have positive comments towards spyderco. knives almost exclusively?

Is it just coincidence the only forum I have ever seen him in is spyderco. forums.

Don't get me wrong my g10 delica is in my edc rotation.

I think spydies are some of the best knives if not the best in their price group...

But they're not the only good folders around and IMO his site and reviews appear to be biased.
 
nathan310 said:
I have been looking at this site called cutlery science and I'm starting to wonder if it isn't a little biased.
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Be happy to know you have a well functioning BS meter and recognize it when you see it!:thumbup:


Gator97 said:
I don't know how many actual scientists went to cliff's site and questioned him or his methods, but if that happens that'd be only positive.
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How about this. Read one quarter of his 17,000+ posts on this site and get back to us.
 
One could argue that this forum is biased. But it is to be expected. If i wanted an honest unbiased opinion i would not come to a Chris Reeves forum and ask for opinions their knives. Or Busse, Kershaw, or any of the other forums and not expect a bias towards the given brand. You can never go with on persons reviews and expect to get a 100% unbiased opinion. People might even not realize that they have a biased opinion good or bad towards a certain company.
 
Ramm9 said:
How about this. Read one quarter of his 17,000+ posts on this site and get back to us.
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How about this, you tell me which one of forum handles belong to "actual scientists" and I promise I'll read at least quarter them. Other than that, I have read enough of his and his opponents posts here and in newsgroups too.

nathan310 said:
Why doesn't he show how every knife he tests does against a can of food?
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How many knives have you tested and then posted reviews? Are you always performing the same tests? I do my reviews, but I really don't have time and some times materials too, to do the exact same test on all knives all the time. Besides, how do I know :) Ask him. Is that a requirement? He spends his money and time on the reviews and does it the way he sees it fit. If I find what I'm looking for in there fine, if not I'll look elsewhere or do it myself.

nathan310 said:
Why does he have positive comments towards spyderco. knives almost exclusively?
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Is that bad? Would U question him if he had exclusively positive comments towards CRK? I'm sure if you do search in this forum you'll find more than few thousand posts claiming that Sebenza is the best folder in the world. You already read tons of those, right? Do you blame those guys for being biased?

nathan310 said:
Is it just coincidence the only forum I have ever seen him in is spyderco. forums.
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Very strange. 17,000+ posts in spyderco forum only? You must be mistaken.

nathan310 said:
But they're not the only good folders around and IMO his site and reviews appear to be biased.
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Sure, so what? Now you know they're biased towards Spyderco and read them as such. Although, ZDP-189 steel hardened to 64-65HRC performing better than S30V at 58-59HRC is really surprising and biased result to you, especially with a thinner edge? I personally don't like spyderco style and don't own any even if I read a lot of Cliff's posts and reviews. I had large sebenza, returned in 3 days, not because Cliff's review, but because I didn't like it. I got small sebenza, liked it and still have it. Used to be in my EDC list till I got Lochsa.
 
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We have had enough of Cliff and his "scientific testing". If you wish to defend him or criticize him please do it elsewhere.
 
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