Cutouts Under Pocket Clip

LimpCroissant said:
So you like the lockbar inserts not so much for their ability to keep the lockbar from overextending in the opposite direction that it locks up, like as if you were to push too hard when unlocking it, but it's ability to keep the lockbar from kind of wiggling back and forth on heavy cutting? And I mean back and forth as in not in the natural direction that the lockbar travels when locking and unlocking, but the other direction? I'm not arguing or anything, I'm just curious why you like it for keeping the lockbar from traveling all the way to the opposite liner and causing blade play, or rather why the lockbar stabilizer would help when the lockbar is traveling that way, considering I think usually people think of the stabilizer as helping in the other direction. Maybe you can give me some more appreciation to the Lockbar Stabilizer. 🍻
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I like having a lockbar insert on frame locks (some liner locks have them too), mostly for peace of mind in case the lockup ever gets too late. I’ve had a couple older ZTs that moved to about 75+% and I don’t like that, because if it wears more, then I don’t even know how they would fix the blade play in that case if it were to develop.
Whereas if it had an insert, it could easily be replaced with a slightly bigger one, and then you’ll have another 5-10 years before you wear that out too, maybe longer.


Tsujigiri said:
Is the issue that you have lock failure or just late lockup?

As Shinyedges noted, the newer CRK's have a patented ceramic ball interface that's even harder and more resistant to wear than a steel insert.
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It was a Chinese Kershaw, nothing expensive, but what would happen was after a few heavy cuts, the frame would move over so much on deployment that I needed a screwdriver or similar tool just to unlock it.
I’ll have to check out that ceramic ball interface you guys mentioned…. I’m embarrassingly unfamiliar with CRK in general
 
tony281sc2 said:
I like having a lockbar insert on frame locks (some liner locks have them too), mostly for peace of mind in case the lockup ever gets too late. I’ve had a couple older ZTs that moved to about 75% and I don’t like that, because if it wears more, then I don’t even know how they would fix the blade play in that case if it were to develop.
Whereas if it had an insert, it could easily be replaced with a slightly bigger one, and then you’ll have another 5-10 years before you wear that out too, maybe longer.



It was a Chinese Kershaw, nothing expensive, but what would happen was after a few heavy cuts, the frame would move over so much on deployment that I needed a screwdriver or similar tool just to unlock it.
I’ll have to check out that ceramic ball interface you guys mentioned…. I’m embarrassingly unfamiliar with CRK in general
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Oooh I got yea. Yup, I understand and feel you. We were talking about two different things. I was talking about Hinderer Lockbar Stabilizers, that are found on a lot of knives now days to keep the lockbar from being overextended in the opposite direction. I'm sure you know what they are, we just misunderstood eachother. Yea, lockbar inserts are nice for the reasons you listed. I do still have a thing for straight Ti on steel framelocks, I think just because it gives me nostalgia, however yea lockbar inserts make a lot of sense for everyone involved (the customer and the manufacturer/company). You could fix a straight titanium lockbar that had traveled all the way over by either peening it, or possibly carbidizing it. It may give ya a bit more life.
 
J. Doyle said:
A properly made, quality titanium frame lock or liner lock will literally last decades with no appreciable wear and no lock stick.
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If well done, it’s a think of beauty. I have some handmade ones, Hinderer (e.g., Gen 4 XM18) and now CRK. I forgot who, but years ago a well known maker explained here how he would calibrate them. Some manual work involved including adjustments under stress, which is why I suspect many Ti on steel interfaces of larger brands have lock-stick (won’t name names), or use a weakened lock, or steel inserts, or both.

tony281sc2 said:
That’s honestly a big part of why I have never tried a CRK, LG, or Spartan
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I believe you like some of the same knives as I do. Try a CRK, it’s quite impressive and unique.
 
ferider said:
If well done, it’s a think of beauty. I have some handmade ones, Hinderer (e.g., Gen 4 XM18) and now CRK. I forgot who, but years ago a well known maker explained here how he would calibrate them. Some manual work involved including adjustments under stress, which is why I suspect many Ti on steel interfaces of larger brands have lock-stick (won’t name names), or use a weakened lock, or steel inserts, or both.



I believe you like some of the same knives as I do. Try a CRK, it’s quite impressive and unique.
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There's a CRK shop tour video on youtube from back when the Regular was first coming out. It's a 2 part thing and really cool. But they show that stage of the process and show the technician using Spyderco Sharpmaker rods to make final adjustments on the Ti lockface, wearing it down a tiny bit here, smoothing it out there, really cool to see. 🍻
 
tony281sc2 said:
It was a Chinese Kershaw, nothing expensive, but what would happen was after a few heavy cuts, the frame would move over so much on deployment that I needed a screwdriver or similar tool just to unlock it.
I’ll have to check out that ceramic ball interface you guys mentioned…. I’m embarrassingly unfamiliar with CRK in general
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Oh I meant with the ZT's that you mentioned; it seemed like the late lockup wasn't a functional thing. I believe ZT does radius the lock face, so it won't wear from 75% to 100% at the same rate that it wore from 50% to 75%, if it even gets there at all. Also, I don't think up and down bladeplay would compromise the safety of the lock. Traditional lockbacks, for instance, require a little bit of play to function correctly (modern lockbacks have changed the geometry so they don't do this). Personally, I wouldn't consider a knife's life to be over at that point.
 
So basically what I’m getting out of this is that a great knife maker such as CRK does a great job making their knives lock up well for life. As I’ve mentioned in the past, I’m new to the knife thing. I went from Spyderco (tried several models) to Benchmade (hated the crunchy cheap feeling when opening), to CRK, because all the complaints I had about Spyderco and Benchmade seemed to be covered by CRK. I got the Inkosi in Magnacut, tried all three blade shapes, and settled on the Tanto. I found nothing wrong with it but it just didn’t “wow” me as far as the appearance goes. Questioning my decision for a “grail” knife in the CRK (I had zero complaints but needed something to compare it to in a similar price bracket of roughly $500), I tried a McNees MAC 2. I got the McNees because the blade shape made me smile, and I was hoping it felt just as good,if not better, in hand than the CRK. The owner seems awesome, and I wanted to support a newer company…but the CRK’s fit and finish (buttery smoothness opening, way more ergonomic handle, and much more solid feeling lockup, not to mention the tiny stop pin on the McNees was about as thin as pencil lead) was night and day to the McNees. And now the CRK looks a whole lot closer to “wow” than it did before. So I’m not quite done because…well there’s a shit load of other knife makers in the $500 range. May I have some suggestions as to knife makers in a similar price range that make knives as perfect as CRK?
 
That is kind of the thing with CRK, they look boring at first but there's a lot more thought and refinement put into their knives that you have to experience to understand. I think a lot of people have gone from thinking the Sebenza is a low effort cash grab to thinking it's a peerless paragon of knife design. They also do a few things differently from other companies, so there isn't much that's directly comparable. The closest I can think of is Arno Bernard, another South African.

You could also look at the Spartan Harsey folder or Hinderer, both are chunkier but less refined than CRK. Les George gets recommended a lot here, too.

If you're looking more for a smooth flipper, Shirogorov and Koenig are the big names, with Reate offering something much more available and almost as good.
 
To the OP, sometimes you'll see a relief cut under the clip itself, or at least they don't stamp the traction in that area.
If that's what you're asking about, it's so that the handle traction doesn't overly abrade the clothing you're clipping the knife to. Spyderco puts a flat oval with their trademark right where the clip bears against the handle.
 
Smaug said:
To the OP, sometimes you'll see a relief cut under the clip itself, or at least they don't stamp the traction in that area.
If that's what you're asking about, it's so that the handle traction doesn't overly abrade the clothing you're clipping the knife to. Spyderco puts a flat oval with their trademark right where the clip bears against the handle.
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The relief he’s asking about was confirmed on page 1, post 9.
 
Tsujigiri said:
That is kind of the thing with CRK, they look boring at first but there's a lot more thought and refinement put into their knives that you have to experience to understand. I think a lot of people have gone from thinking the Sebenza is a low effort cash grab to thinking it's a peerless paragon of knife design. They also do a few things differently from other companies, so there isn't much that's directly comparable. The closest I can think of is Arno Bernard, another South African.

You could also look at the Spartan Harsey folder or Hinderer, both are chunkier but less refined than CRK. Les George gets recommended a lot here, too.

If you're looking more for a smooth flipper, Shirogorov and Koenig are the big names, with Reate offering something much more available and almost as good.
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Thank you for those recommendations. I’ll have a look and see if there’s a model I’m attracted to.
 
Teesac81 said:
So basically what I’m getting out of this is that a great knife maker such as CRK does a great job making their knives lock up well for life. As I’ve mentioned in the past, I’m new to the knife thing. I went from Spyderco (tried several models) to Benchmade (hated the crunchy cheap feeling when opening), to CRK, because all the complaints I had about Spyderco and Benchmade seemed to be covered by CRK. I got the Inkosi in Magnacut, tried all three blade shapes, and settled on the Tanto. I found nothing wrong with it but it just didn’t “wow” me as far as the appearance goes. Questioning my decision for a “grail” knife in the CRK (I had zero complaints but needed something to compare it to in a similar price bracket of roughly $500), I tried a McNees MAC 2. I got the McNees because the blade shape made me smile, and I was hoping it felt just as good,if not better, in hand than the CRK. The owner seems awesome, and I wanted to support a newer company…but the CRK’s fit and finish (buttery smoothness opening, way more ergonomic handle, and much more solid feeling lockup, not to mention the tiny stop pin on the McNees was about as thin as pencil lead) was night and day to the McNees. And now the CRK looks a whole lot closer to “wow” than it did before. So I’m not quite done because…well there’s a shit load of other knife makers in the $500 range. May I have some suggestions as to knife makers in a similar price range that make knives as perfect as CRK?
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The beauty of a CRK often gets overlooked by people who are new to the knife game. When I got into knives I didn't understand really what "fit and finish" meant. That's what CRK does best. Compare your Inkosi to any other knife you have, and take a real good close look at all the chamfers around the scales. Notice how they are all perfectly even, symmetrical, and most impressively-there are no finishing/milling marks anywhere on the knife. That's really what sets a CRK apart from other knives in it's price category, let alone knives more in the 200-250 dollar range. Then you learn that their internal tolerance are within 1/10th of a hundred thousandth of an inch. You can even take a jeweler's loupe to it and still it looks nice and smooth. It's extremely rare to not be able to find any milling marks underneath the bead blasted titanium of knives in this price range.
 
LimpCroissant said:
The beauty of a CRK often gets overlooked by people who are new to the knife game. When I got into knives I didn't understand really what "fit and finish" meant. That's what CRK does best. Compare your Inkosi to any other knife you have, and take a real good close look at all the chamfers around the scales. Notice how they are all perfectly even, symmetrical, and most impressively-there are no finishing/milling marks anywhere on the knife. That's really what sets a CRK apart from other knives in it's price category, let alone knives more in the 200-250 dollar range. Then you learn that their internal tolerance are within 1/10th of a hundred thousandth of an inch. You can even take a jeweler's loupe to it and still it looks nice and smooth. It's extremely rare to not be able to find any milling marks underneath the bead blasted titanium of knives in this price range.
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I’m glad I bit the bullet when I did. Someone said “buy once, cry once” on some thread shortly after I joined and, being the frugal yet exacting person I am, it sounded.practical. It’s disappointing to me to find that other knives in this range aren’t as well made, though I suppose “well made” can be subjective. I do appreciate the attention to detail. I had no idea how rare that is. And it’s not the brand new look that impresses me (I’ve already put a couple marks on the handle, and I like it more); it’s the feel of it. It is one with itself. When it locks up, there is zero play. It isn’t light, and I like that. Yeah, I guess this has turned into a “damn, I love CRK” thread. I’ll still have a look at some other brands, but this Inkosi is a keeper.
 
ferider said:
It's the core of Chris Reeve's RIL patent. Otherwise it would be a Liner-lock.



To determine what happens if it breaks. On the inside is prettier, on the outside is safer. Plus, outside is easier to machine, I'm guessing.
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“Safer” because of the aforementioned explanation that it’s less likely (though highly unlikely either way) to break if the milling is on the outside?
 
This is a dumb question, but why is steel preferable to titanium in a frame lock?

I’m an idiot, by the way. Explain it like I’m 5.
 
Teesac81 said:
“Safer” because of the aforementioned explanation that it’s less likely (though highly unlikely either way) to break if the milling is on the outside?
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Yes. Somebody did some (crazy) tests (forgot the reference, sorry). Under high stress, the lock bar will fold to the outside, when the milling is on the outside. Basically, when the knife is locked, and you try to close it with high pressure, the blade tang will push the lock to the outside and the blade will close.
 
ferider said:
For a well done framelock, and for me, it's not. For a mass produced knife with not much time for hand adjustment of each knife, steel inserts prevent lock stick.

That's my view anyways. :)
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Do you know a lot about the ceramic insert which interfaces with the blade steel on the lock bar? I wonder how the ceramic and steel wear over time and how that will change lockup, particularly since the point of contact is so small. What’s the longevity of that system? Are they hand-tuning that tiny ball to optimize contact? All the questions.
 
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