Cutting Competitions: "Dog and Pony Show"

Cutting competitions can be a valuable tool for teaching a maker about the efficiency, effectiveness and ergonomics of his large knife designs. But the greater deciding factor in who wins is the user, not the knife. If Reggie Barker and I switch knives, he will still kick my ass. Or put another way - you could put Tiger Woods' driver in my hands and I still won't hit it 350 yards. A lot of it comes down to experience and technique.

I don't know that these competitions - even when they were conducted exclusively by makers using their own knives - were ever regarded as a true comparison test of the knives themselves.

Roger
 
I have been covring the cutting championship for Blade Magazine the last couple of years and I have learned a lot about the knives and the competitors. Both are important to win.

For the knife, it is very impressive that they came up with any knife that take the abuse of chopping through 2x4s and hardwood dowel rods without damaging the edge and still remain sharp enough to slice the tip off of a drinking straw.

The knife design focuses on wieght distribution and the handle. Several cutters told me how important the handle design is because it has to be comfortable in order to control the knife as precisely as they need to. Weight distribution is a matter of preference for the cutter's style. Some prefer a heavier knife with some weight forward for power while other might prefer lighter and weight rearward for quickness and more tip speed.

As for the cutters, all have told me it is about technique more than strength. Many of those cuts are much harder than they look. Cutting ropes and water bottles are fine if you get it right. If you hit it wrong it's like swinging your blade into a brick wall.

I'm sure most could switch knives and still compete but the competition often comes down to a matter of seconds. One extra swing to get through the 2x4, one missed cut, or one extra second can make the difference in winning or losing.
 
I'm willing to bet that customizing the knife to the individual is really important. Changing knives between competitors I think would make an obvious difference in outcome, but of course there are always those who are more skilled at the tasks than the rest. When a guy is making a knife for himself, to do the tasks a cutting comp requires, I have no doubt that his focus is on making a knife specifically for himself to use to do these things.

Good topic- very interesting to me for sure.
 
David,
It's all relative. All of the knives would perform at or near the same level, IF they were all made the same or near the same way. Most are made to get the most out of the particular blade steel used. But, I have seen some that are not up to par. An individual maker may get more consistant results because of his methods. Others may have let something slip by them and it will show up in the long run.

A lot of steels will perform the duties often demonstrated in Competitions. Each maker has his "pet" steel and will do his best to get the most out of it. So , in this regard, no one has unfair advantage. It's the maker's choice.

The area where a problem will most likely show up is in overall design. If all of the contestants used the same steel, heat treated the same way, ground the same way, then that only leaves design and user's skill as variables.

I strongly believe the design to be a variable that recieves too little attention. When I say design, I mean the whole knife, Blade shape and all that goes with it, Handle shape and all that goes with it AND how they relate to each other. Lin
 
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lwrhea said:
I strongly believe the design to be a variable that recieves too little attention. When I say design, I mean the whole knife, Blade shape and all that goes with it, Handle shape and all that goes with it AND how they relate to each other. Lin
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I agree. And I think the handle design on your competition cutter is outstanding.

If I'm not mistaken, for the cutting competitions sanctioned by Bladesports, competitors don't have to use their own knives, right?

Roger
 
For the record, this is just my opinion and I am not implying that I know everything about this subject. So there.:)

You cant easily separate the blade design and handle design. It all has to go together to make the whole thing a flowing, symbiotic unit. I just have to literally go to the drawing board and get everything working together. I wont make a competition knife without a certain amount of handle drop. By the way, the drop is in relation to the cutting edge, not the spine or any other place. The cutting edge is a horizontal line on my drawing board and the handle drops off from that. I forget the degree of angle difference offhand, but it seems to work better for me.

I also try to test my handle shape to make sure that it works not only for single swings, but for repetitive motion along with handle shock. I dont like to have to re grip every few strikes for obvious reasons. I will shape the handle and for days will feel of it, chop, or tweak it for hot spots, sometimes you cant really tell by looks that I made any change, but you can feel it.

While on the drawing board I make sure that I am allowing the tang to be as beefy as reasonably possible. I then follow the drawing, often checking things in comparison to it, to make sure it will all end up as planned.
Lin
 
Roger,

I believe your right about Blade Sports rules allowing for contestants to use knives from production companies and other makers.

Kevin,
What I do know is I'm still learning. That is one good thing about makers making their own knives and competing with them. I learn something every time I compete. The fact that it's so enjoyable is a bonus for me. Lin
 
I entered a cutting competition not long ago for my first time. And what I found out about half way thru the 2x4 chop is I had to change my handel design. My knife twisted so I had to re grip, my hand also slid back on the handel so I had to re grip. After talking to Lin and other makers I came home and started drawing a new blade and handel design, my steel showed up for it today I hope to start working on it soon. But I will test it and keep making any changes till I get it to work right and feel right.
 
Having been in a number of competitions, I can say that they have definitely helped me in making a better knife. I usually do not do that well, but my knives have faired well and have gotten better. There is a lot of technique involved, yes, but it is easier to compete with a well designed knife. The main thing for me is the testing of my knife and it's design. Plus, they are just a lot of fun. And I also think Lin knows a thing or two about cutting knives and competitions :). Having been in a number of competitions with Lin is kind of awe inspiring :D

Brion
 
David,
I can only say what I think based on what I've seen. I dont remember seeing any knives used that had fullers and not many that were hollow ground. I dont believe these features serve much advantage in a cutting competition or camp knife. Might even be a disadvantage in some cuts. If you dont see these in competitions, you can bet that the competititors feel the same.

I personally have not tried the recurve blade much. The recurve is, in my opinion, misapplied in competiton knives. Or, at least, dont offer full advantage in a blade of 10 inches. I believe this is an attempt to have the knife perform the cut rather than the user perform the cut. In other words, the user can change his technique, his cutting motion, and achieve the cut with a blade that is not recurved. I want a relatively straight cutting edge and I'm willing to use and apply technique to acheive a particular cut rather than alter that straight edge which, I think, I will need for other events. This is nothing more than strategy in knife construction. I certainly see the value of the recurve blade in some applications as well as in ethnic and historic knives. But, in a competition, I feel I can only ask so much of a knife and I have to provide the rest in technique.
Lin
 
I've only cut in 6 or so events and was never very good. The best I ever placed was third. One thing I've noticed is that under the auspices of the ABS the cutting contests placed more of a premium on a well rounded knife, while with bladesports cuts that I've seen there hasn't been a need for a knife to have much in the way of a point and more of a premium is placed on chopping and slashing.
 
Yes Mike. It was a sad day for me when the ABS decided not to hold cutting events. In those events you saw knives that were Bowies, Camp Knives, etc. The maker was essentially testing his knife for himself as well as for all to see. It needed to be a well rounded knife, because you just did not know what the events were going to be. It taught you to construct a knife better.

That's why I naturally think of a Camp Knife and a Competition Knife as the same knife. I guess you could compare it to racing cars that are stock. That appeals to me a little more. Lin
 
I spent about 5 years heavily involved with cutting competitions. This was the transition time when the ABS was getting out, ICCT was developing the standards and BladeSports was taking over. I wrote most of the rules that are in use today. There has been an unbelievable amount of time and effort put into developing the events, knives and techniques in use today and a lot of people contributed. The events from the early days of the ABS competitions right through the Blade Show Championship this year were designed to test the limits of the knife. Heavy power cuts and light finesse cuts must be performed with equal success to place well. In this regard the knives have to be designed to do all these cuts well. Warren Osborne and Gayle Bradley have done more research on the design for competition knives than anyone I know. If you follow what these two men are doing you will be ahead of the game.

Skill vs. Knife:

Both have to be 100% to win at one of today’s major competitions. Luck does not play a part anymore. A good example is Jim Crowell. Jim was involved with cutting competitions from the start. For all the ABS years he was a top competitor. He primarily used a traditional hidden tang knife design. Then ICCT took over and opened the competitions up to stock removal knives. Testing and research was done that showed an advantage with a full tapered tang knife design. Jim became a middle of the road finisher in competitions. He felt like he was just not up to the same level of skill with the new guy’s competing. At a competition in Texas Jim didn’t have one of his own knives to use for the event and borrowed one of Warren Osborne’s. (This is within BladeSports rules.) Jim won the event. He also changed the design of the competition knives he makes. This is an example where the knife design and skill level of the competitor were of equal importance.

Important factors for competition knife design:

Blade steel and heat treatment still have to be of primary concern. As in the ABS days if your knife doesn’t hold up you will be disqualified or receive point deductions for any equipment failure.

Blade and edge geometry will make the difference if you can make the cuts or not. A re-curve edge will perform well on rope cuts, 2x4 cuts and water bottles but can’t make cuts that are on a flat surface like slicing a bottle from top to bottom or cutting a rolling tennis ball. Stabbing cuts have been eliminated from BladeSports competition because of safety concerns and it is after all a “cutting” competition. So the cleaver style blade is often used. This blade shape can offer advantages in weight distribution and balance. By the way Burt Foster was the first to use the cleaver style blade shape as far as I know.

Handle design is critical. If your handle design is to round, you will have to adjust your grip in the 2x4 cuts. By the time you adjust you have lost. The forward lanyard is not only safer it provides a more secure grip by not allowing your hand to slip back on the handle.

I have only seen a few hollow ground knives in competition. Personally I feel there are possibilities here that have not been thoroughly explored. The best performing knife I made for competitions was very slightly hollow ground. I made a platen for my grinder that would be the equivalent of about a 6-foot diameter wheel. I feel like it relieved cutting drag and I plan to do head to head tests in the future against a flat ground blade.

I learned more in the few years about knife design and heat-treating in the years I competed than in the 20 or so before that combined. I would encourage any knifemaker that wants to make the best performing knives they can get involved in cutting competitions. It’s fun and you will learn a lot.

The thing is, to be a top competitor you have to have the skill and the knife. BladeSports has 2 cutting schools now each year. One is in Texas and the other in Washington. Check out the web site to get complete information. The schools are great and you will learn a lot from the best cutters in the business.

www.bladesports.org

Daniel
 
Well I was gonna add to this but Daniel and Lin have pretty well covered it. My story is that I started at the Lone Star Cutting School in December of 2006. I made my first 2 competition knives for this school. I have only been making knives since 2004, so I am still new to this game. My knives from then until now have changed drastically, because they had to if I wanted to be competitive. I have gone from a drop point style full tang with holes in the handle for balance to a cleaver style with a full tapered tang. My first knives were too soft and the edges were too thick. The knife I am using now is 1lb 9oz. I relate the weight of our knives by using a baseball metaphor. Some batters use a 29oz bat and some use a 31oz bat. They can both swing both bats but do better with the bat they have chosen. The bat each chooses is a compromise between speed and power that best suits their style. It is the same in my opinion with our knives. I learned to flat grind to make my first competition knife. I also learned to taper tangs because of competition. (btw, I won my first competition at the Lone Star school in 2007, the knife I used to win it was the first one I had tapered the tang on, guess it helped). Some of the changes I made to my knives were drastic and some were very subtle, but I feel that the subtle changes were just as important as the drastic ones. I have still not tried to duplicate a knife because I still feel that I need to change something on every one. I could not have made these improvements to my knives without the unselfish input and experience of those I have competed with, and to them I owe a large debt of gratitude. Ok, enough of me rambling. Thanks for reading. Oh, one more thing, if you haven't damaged a competition knife it is not thin enough.
Donavon
 
This is my first post and it is in response to Daniel Winkler’s “Skill vs. Knife” segment in which he says about me “He felt like he was just not up to the same level of skill with the new guy’s competing.” I did not say that nor did I feel that way then or now. What I was trying to express was that I had neither the time nor inclination to seriously train for competitions like the new crop of competitors were doing.

When I started cutting it was a forum for the knife maker to test their work and have the confidence to do it publicly. We did not spend much time training and practicing like many of today’s competitors. The sport has changed. It is now open to all who want to compete and one need not make their own knife. Knives may be purchased from a certified BladeSports maker. This is great for non-knife makers who wish to compete.

It is true that I used an Osborn knife and won that competition and it is true that Warren and Gail have done countless hours of research and testing. Warren and Gail make great knives and we have all learned from their efforts. It is true that I have changed the design of my competition knives although I still like a little bit of a point. Rubber handles, forward lanyards are a must these days. My last competition was the World championship in Atlanta in 2008 where I placed third with, I believe, the only forged blade in the line up. (Yes, it was full tang but it did have a little bit of a point.) This wonderful craft of ours is not static. We learn all the time from a myriad of sources. Form will always follow function the only variance being if there is no function and that I perceive as visual art.

Sincerely,

Jim Crowell
 
Dan and Donavan and Lin thanks for the info .

I find this stuff very interesting .

I am curious at an average comp are there more forged blades or stock removal blades and which on the average do better.

I know it is really who is swinging the knife but curious to hear peoples opinions.

What is the predominate steel right now being used and why
 
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