Cutting Competitions: "Dog and Pony Show"

I can give a little insight from the perspective of a competitor who is new to the cutting competitions, and has never practiced to compete. I was ask to fill in the last available space at the recent Branson Hammer-In cut. Kyle Royer was kind enough to let me use his knife, which he was also sharing with his father that day. Both had competed before, but I gathered neither had done a lot of preparation. In other words, some experience, but not serious cutting competition participants.

I am sure Kyle learned several things about his knife design that day and he and his father both were successful at some of the rotations. Both handled the 2x4 cut well. So, the knife was made to perform. Being unfamiliar with proper technique, I was not so successful. I pounded my way through the board from a narrow opening. That tells me that technique rates high, as one would suspect. Make a wide start in the 2x4 so you can get to the wood to remove it, don't come straight down on the can to slice it...a slight angle is needed, if your angle is too flat on the rope cut, you may cut the rope, but you will pull down the thread it is tied to, a correct angle is needed on the straw cut, etc.

Jimmy Chin picked up Jerry Fisk's cutter after the dust had settled, and said, "Too light." For Jimmy, who is smaller in stature, he felt he needed more heft to a cutting knife. This told me that you are not only designing a knife that can compete in these cuts, but you are also designing it to fit the competitor. Each maker that competes will have different personal needs, besides the type of steel, heat treatment, grind, handle contour, etc.

It might have been a little embarrasing for me, but I was sure glad to be ask to compete and have already done some 'homework' and plan to begin doing some practicing in case that next competition sneaks up on me. It taught me a lot.

So, I would agree with Roger's assessment of the situation he presented...the competitor would probably finish near last with the better designed knife.

- Joe
 
Okay, so assume 20 contestants evenly spaced one through 20. How much does the last place guy move up, if at all, given great knife?

Roger
 
I pounded my way through the board from a narrow opening. That tells me that technique rates high, as one would suspect. Make a wide start in the 2x4 so you can get to the wood to remove it, don't come straight down on the can to slice it...a slight angle is needed, if your angle is too flat on the rope cut, you may cut the rope, but you will pull down the thread it is tied to, a correct angle is needed on the straw cut, etc.

Great examples Joe. The reason I asked is that I have been in your position - in a way - not competing, but trying my hand at a wide variety of cutting tests on an ABS competition rig as research for an article. Technique - or my complete lack of it - was a HUGE factor. Without some instruction on technique I could not cut a single hanging rope. At all. With that instruction - and some practice - I got so I could cut one every time and managed two, well, some of the time. :o And with the same knife, an experienced competitor readily cut a bundle of 4. And so it was with all the "events". You could have given me a forged light saber and that alone would not have had any immediate impact on my performance.

Oh - and hats off to you for stepping up and competing in front of a crowd. I was cutting in front of all of 2 guys and I was nervous as hell.

Roger
 
Okay, so assume 20 contestants evenly spaced one through 20. How much does the last place guy move up, if at all, given great knife?

Roger

I think he might move up a notch or two, but not completely from the better knife. Just doing the first round of competition should bring about some slight changes that could improve results. You can learn a lot early on when you don't know much. :)

- Joe
 
I think he might move up a notch or two, but not completely from the better knife. Just doing the first round of competition should bring about some slight changes that could improve results. You can learn a lot early on when you don't know much. :)

- Joe

I agree with you guys. I've hacked with some outstanding choppers, but until I was shown correct technique and got some cutting time I looked more like I was trying to beat something than cut it.

I have to believe that someone who has mastered technique and has competitions under their belt has quite an advantage over someone who doesn't. IMO, it's somewhat similar to the lumberjack competitions.

Joe, it took oo-s to step up compete with those guys. Good for you.:thumbup:
 
with my trail work, I do a ton of cutting. It's not the same thing exactly as cutting bottles down the middle or slicing straws, but it's pretty close. Generally much dirtier.
As someone who does this kind of work quite a lot, I have to say generally that aim and physics, (angles) determines success more than the type of blade.

For example, I've supervised trail crews where there is lots of blade work ie; machetes and the like. A guy with a machete which has been freshly sharpened can be pretty productive, but without the eye and the experience won't get nearly as much work done, even with the extra 8 or so inches of reach, in the same amount of time as me with my 10" blade. Not trying to toot my own horn there, I just get lots of practice because I enjoy it. In my view repetitive experience and good coordination plays a bigger role than the tool being used. Of course, as you get more experienced, you get more discerning and tend to split hairs(:)) when it comes to the minutae of the tool you're using because you use it so much that you can grasp its limitations in a very short period of time.

Like billiards, fencing, carpentry or whatever- the guy who has the desire in him to master his discipline will do so no matter what tool he uses, because it's the desire which sustains his interest and creates the success, not the trappings.

Sorry for rambling:o
 
What would be the effect on the events (results) if contestants were allowed to use a variety of blade sizes - completely at the discretion of the participants, machete 18" or 24" blade for instance? .. or having option of several knives on hand, more than just the standard 10"?

Curious, from maker's point of view, what would be the ideal size blade for the 2x4 chop, and hemp rope cut?
David

Used to be once a year they had an unlimited cut, any thing goes. John Fitch used a 14" bowie that looked just about like what a 10" blade does when held by normal size people. Another fellow used a hatchet and, I believe, Dickie Robinson fresh from Don Foggs sword class brought a katana and did quite well.
 
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It was a sad day for me when the ABS decided not to hold cutting events.

My understanding is that the ABS felt the competitions were starting to consume more time, energy and resources than their primary objectives of preserving the art of the forged blade and teaching the proper techniques of making them

I would also add that Haywood College in North Carolina has also been designated as a certified ABS School.

It is my experience that many of the Hammer in hosts have cutting “Challenges” that are held in conjunction with an ABS Hammer in.

As I mentioned previously, the old ABS “competitions were forums for the knife maker (Bladesmith) to test their work and have the confidence to do it publicly. I joined the ABS back in 1983 after seeing Bill Moran, Bill Bagwell and Don Hastings doing things with knives that were magic to me. We have come a long way since those days. BladeSports continues to push the edge of design, steels and heat treat. Just setting up a course of to cut is a lot of work. I must say I really enjoyed the course cuts.

However today’s contests do not reflect the mission of the ABS and perhaps that is why the ABS decided to discontinue cutting competitions. Personally I would like to see the ABS have cutting competitions again for their Bladesmith members. A stuffed animal for a prize is great. Keep it simple and keep it fun.

Jim
 
You guys have been busy. I just got in from the shop and have a little catching up to do.

Resinguy,

Thanks for the welcome. Congratulations on your win but I know you had to do your part to make it happen. The better the knife the better your chances but if you can’t cut it does not happen. I remember.

Roger,

You and the others asked some great questions. First I would like to say that I admire and respect anyone who has the courage to “step into the ring.” I have been doing this a long time and have seen many cutters and worked with a great bunch of folks. It is my humble opinion that your skill level is more important in the beginning for sure. Most of us had little or no experience with this sort of thing. A good knife is a great asset and can certainly make the difference if the competitors are closely matched but if they are not I would bet on the more experienced cutter.

Most guys like the biggest heaviest knife they can wield efficiently. That is part of the fun of having heavy cuts as well as finesse cuts. Obviously the heavy knives chop better and the light knives are more “agile” for the finer cuts. One I remember fondly was a grape on a golf Tee and don’t hit the Tee.

I think Mr. Jones hit the nail on the head.


One thing Elmer Keith said is for sure: “The more you practice the luckier you get.”

Jim
 
Like billiards, fencing, carpentry or whatever- the guy who has the desire in him to master his discipline will do so no matter what tool he uses, because it's the desire which sustains his interest and creates the success, not the trappings.

I agree with Lorien.

I and several others have said they compete because it's fun. I guess we are makers at heart and competitors for recreation.:D For me, it's an enjoyment to see tha fruits of your labor work so well. The real passion is in the making. To master that discipline.

I also agree with Lorien in that some guys can take a 10 inch blade and work circles around some with any blade of their choice. I dont really like to carry a knife any longer than with a 10 inch blade. Just me.

I grew up in the country, using tools for cutting, axes, saws, machetes, etc. not so much for a living so time was not too much a of a consideration. Just chores. A Carpenter most of my working life. I would think that one's life's work could play a part in how coordinated a person is with a knife too. Bone stucture too, is important, in my opinion. Lin
 
And my new friend Lorien, who I haven't met yet, but would like to take opportunity to announce, he will be riding his bike all the way from Canada to Blade Show, next year! ..To a hero's welcome, surely. ;)

Blade or bust!:D
 
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