Perhaps if you ask your question a little more gently, then we don't have flames.
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CV Steel In Folders. WHY?
- Thread starter Gene
- Start date
Perhaps if you ask your question a little more gently, then we don't have flames.
silenthunterstudios
Slipjoint Addict
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- Feb 2, 2005
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- 20,039
To quote John Belushi from Animal House, "WHY NOT".
I prefer carbon and tool steel in my slipjoints. Winchester Moose (1095), Tidioute scout trapper(1095), Ontario RAT railsplitter (D2). I am unsure of the steel in my Utica stockman, but I believe it is carbon steel, it was made in the 50's and has a heavy patina.
I prefer carbon and tool steel in my slipjoints. Winchester Moose (1095), Tidioute scout trapper(1095), Ontario RAT railsplitter (D2). I am unsure of the steel in my Utica stockman, but I believe it is carbon steel, it was made in the 50's and has a heavy patina.
- Joined
- Nov 19, 2008
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- 2,673
Carbon steels take a keen edge easier, and retain it longer than stainless. Seems like the real question should be: SS in folders? WHY? Is a few drops of oil really worth it? I've had everything from 440 to zdp 189 with most in between. None of them touch most makers 1095, in retention vs ease of sharpening.
Personally, I would rather have a good quality stainless in a traditional knife, if that were possible. It is much more difficult to sharpen something like VG10, 154CM or D2, but edge holding is going to be much better than 1095 at RC 57-59.
I am happy with D2 - it is a tough steel, has very good wear resistance and is nearly stainless. I would be more likely to buy more traditional knives - if more models were available in D2.
That said, it took me 3 sanding belts to get a small nick out of a Queen blade.
I know that Queen uses it, and I do have a couple of Queens.
I am happy with D2 - it is a tough steel, has very good wear resistance and is nearly stainless. I would be more likely to buy more traditional knives - if more models were available in D2.
That said, it took me 3 sanding belts to get a small nick out of a Queen blade.
I know that Queen uses it, and I do have a couple of Queens.
"Why do most folks here love CV, (chrome vanadium), steel? I know it was one of the better steels in the old days and still is today but why do you folks love it so much now?"
Because it IS one of the better steels around?
You did kind of answer that yourself. But lot of people like it now because it just plain works out for a cutting tool. Yes, there are modern stainless steels that will work. But like most things in life, there are trade offs. I can remember the old days when stainless steel was not worth a tinkers d--m, and nobody who used a knife on a daily basis would bother with the stuff. Carbon steel was the universal knife steel when I was a kid. Stainless was used for flatwhere that you used to eat dinner with.
Today you can get a whiz bang stainless that will outcut some carbon's, but one of the trade off's is that most knife owners can't easiely sharpen it. Cv or plain old 1095, in addition to being a longer lasting cutting edge in general, will sharpen up from dull a lot faster. I've carried both in my lifetime, but in general, for general cutting use in the real world, I much preffer carbon.
I've had identical knives in both steels, and while the stainless was okay for most days, I could tell a difference if I did some unusual dirty deeds cutting. Between a stainless peanut and a CV peanut, there was a noticable difference if pushed. Between a carbon number 8 Opinel and a stainless number 8 Opinel, I could tell a bit of a difference.
With most stainless, as the RC goes up, the abrasion resistance seems to go up as well. Most people seem to having enough of a problem getting a dull knife sharp again without adding this in on them. For a great deal of human history, people have managed to do amazing things with plain old carbon steel.
For thirty years, I watched Bill Moran try and experiment with just about every type of steel a knife could be made from. Bill was the kind of guy who was always trying to find the better steel. He didn't like resting on his lurals. He'd forge, stock remove, bend, test impact, wear on edge, and even have the grain analized. He never found a stainless steel that could stand up to a well made carbon for the American Bladesmith Society tests for master smith. Believe me, he looked.
For the basic business of cutting, seperating something at a molecular level, it's going to be very hard to beat plain old carbon steel for many years to come. I don't beleive it is by accident that Jeff Randall's people use 1095 for most of thier knives. Look at some of the hard use "survival knives" that get great cult following. Not much stainless around.
As for the rust issue, I believe it is greatly exagerated. Yes, I hear people saying how they live in a humid environment and their knives rust right in thier pockets. I don't believe it.
I grew up in a humid environment. The Chesapeake bay is one of the bigest salt water bays in the world, and summers in Mayland can be so humid, something a mile away can have a blue haze around it. But too many watermen made their living on the bay with carbon steel knives that didn't rust. Yes, they stained, but they didn't rust. Even when tossed in a tin bucket and let sit, they just got black as the Earl Of Hell's riding boots. They got wiped down every night, and in the morning they got touched up on a stone while heading out. As a kid, I never saw a stainless steel knife in the hands of men who really did use a knife every day. If you wanted a serious knife in the 1940's and 50's, you got a good carbon steel blade. To some degree today, I think that still stands. If you just wipe off your knife every day, it's not going to rust on you. It may stain a bit, but that's going to protect it in the long run. I understand how some people freak out these days if they find a spot on their knife. Get over it and move on. A little color on your blade is not going to hurt anything. I remember the old timers when I was kid, getting a new pocket knife, and sticking the blade in a potato overnight to induce a protective patina.
Stainless steel has come a very long way in the past 40 years. In some cases the very high end stainless may even beat out carbon for edge holding. But then you get some negative qualities that are not worth the trade off. I believe that CV is still so popular, is that for OVERALL use in a cutting tool, it's very hard to beat. CV and plain old carbon like was used by Schrade, had such a loyal following by working men, because it gave them the best 'overall' preformance from a cutting tool.
I don't think it's changed much, exept for the urination contests by the knife snobs that keep the knife manufactures coming out with the wonder steel of the month.
I'll keep on with old carbon steel blades.
Because it IS one of the better steels around?
You did kind of answer that yourself. But lot of people like it now because it just plain works out for a cutting tool. Yes, there are modern stainless steels that will work. But like most things in life, there are trade offs. I can remember the old days when stainless steel was not worth a tinkers d--m, and nobody who used a knife on a daily basis would bother with the stuff. Carbon steel was the universal knife steel when I was a kid. Stainless was used for flatwhere that you used to eat dinner with.
Today you can get a whiz bang stainless that will outcut some carbon's, but one of the trade off's is that most knife owners can't easiely sharpen it. Cv or plain old 1095, in addition to being a longer lasting cutting edge in general, will sharpen up from dull a lot faster. I've carried both in my lifetime, but in general, for general cutting use in the real world, I much preffer carbon.
I've had identical knives in both steels, and while the stainless was okay for most days, I could tell a difference if I did some unusual dirty deeds cutting. Between a stainless peanut and a CV peanut, there was a noticable difference if pushed. Between a carbon number 8 Opinel and a stainless number 8 Opinel, I could tell a bit of a difference.
With most stainless, as the RC goes up, the abrasion resistance seems to go up as well. Most people seem to having enough of a problem getting a dull knife sharp again without adding this in on them. For a great deal of human history, people have managed to do amazing things with plain old carbon steel.
For thirty years, I watched Bill Moran try and experiment with just about every type of steel a knife could be made from. Bill was the kind of guy who was always trying to find the better steel. He didn't like resting on his lurals. He'd forge, stock remove, bend, test impact, wear on edge, and even have the grain analized. He never found a stainless steel that could stand up to a well made carbon for the American Bladesmith Society tests for master smith. Believe me, he looked.
For the basic business of cutting, seperating something at a molecular level, it's going to be very hard to beat plain old carbon steel for many years to come. I don't beleive it is by accident that Jeff Randall's people use 1095 for most of thier knives. Look at some of the hard use "survival knives" that get great cult following. Not much stainless around.
As for the rust issue, I believe it is greatly exagerated. Yes, I hear people saying how they live in a humid environment and their knives rust right in thier pockets. I don't believe it.
I grew up in a humid environment. The Chesapeake bay is one of the bigest salt water bays in the world, and summers in Mayland can be so humid, something a mile away can have a blue haze around it. But too many watermen made their living on the bay with carbon steel knives that didn't rust. Yes, they stained, but they didn't rust. Even when tossed in a tin bucket and let sit, they just got black as the Earl Of Hell's riding boots. They got wiped down every night, and in the morning they got touched up on a stone while heading out. As a kid, I never saw a stainless steel knife in the hands of men who really did use a knife every day. If you wanted a serious knife in the 1940's and 50's, you got a good carbon steel blade. To some degree today, I think that still stands. If you just wipe off your knife every day, it's not going to rust on you. It may stain a bit, but that's going to protect it in the long run. I understand how some people freak out these days if they find a spot on their knife. Get over it and move on. A little color on your blade is not going to hurt anything. I remember the old timers when I was kid, getting a new pocket knife, and sticking the blade in a potato overnight to induce a protective patina.
Stainless steel has come a very long way in the past 40 years. In some cases the very high end stainless may even beat out carbon for edge holding. But then you get some negative qualities that are not worth the trade off. I believe that CV is still so popular, is that for OVERALL use in a cutting tool, it's very hard to beat. CV and plain old carbon like was used by Schrade, had such a loyal following by working men, because it gave them the best 'overall' preformance from a cutting tool.
I don't think it's changed much, exept for the urination contests by the knife snobs that keep the knife manufactures coming out with the wonder steel of the month.
I'll keep on with old carbon steel blades.
I spent two hours this morning whittling a piece of basswood. I was using my favorite whittler, a Schrade 863 with carbon blades.
The way the steel performed, the "feel" of it, and the razor edge I put on it, the way it held it's edge......all of these reasons are why I prefer carbon to stainless.
But I like Tru Sharp too. I just prefer the CV.
It takes a little more attention to care for and I prefer the look of patina. Different strokes and all that.
this thread needs a pic.
The way the steel performed, the "feel" of it, and the razor edge I put on it, the way it held it's edge......all of these reasons are why I prefer carbon to stainless.
But I like Tru Sharp too. I just prefer the CV.
It takes a little more attention to care for and I prefer the look of patina. Different strokes and all that.
this thread needs a pic.
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If Case gave me a choice between S30V and CV, then I probably wouldn't own many carbon steel knives. However the stainless steel they use does not perform well enough for me, so I choose CV in my Case knives.
Corrosion is a big issue where I live, except for a few weeks in winter it's hot and humid enough to rust a knife by just having it in my pocket for a few hours. I even need to keep stainless steel knives oiled or wipe them with an oil soaked rag every night or they start to develop rust spots as well. But I still prefer CV over Tru Sharp, I'd rather have stained and sharp than shiny and blunt.
I do like the patina carbon steel takes and the way a bone handled Case knife with CV blades ages, but my choice is mainly because of performance. I'd love to see traditional knife manufacturers use modern premium stainless steels.
Corrosion is a big issue where I live, except for a few weeks in winter it's hot and humid enough to rust a knife by just having it in my pocket for a few hours. I even need to keep stainless steel knives oiled or wipe them with an oil soaked rag every night or they start to develop rust spots as well. But I still prefer CV over Tru Sharp, I'd rather have stained and sharp than shiny and blunt.
I do like the patina carbon steel takes and the way a bone handled Case knife with CV blades ages, but my choice is mainly because of performance. I'd love to see traditional knife manufacturers use modern premium stainless steels.
That is the same for me. I love stainless steel. It is great. However the stuff Case uses, its not up to my expectations. CV steel is. I love it. Takes a great edge and I love a patina. If case would ever change to a good steel for a decent price then I would probably go for that. Until then, I am all carbon all the way. By the way, if you don't believe us, go get a good old Schrade 34 or 8OT and sharpen that up. Then you'll see why we love our carbon steels so much.
Will Power
Gold Member
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I like both and both have a genuine place in/on traditional pocket-knives. I slightly prefer stainless over carbon for food prep as carbon imparts a flavour on fruits that I don't like,and there's the oil factor too.
Custom pocket knives are usually in some form of top of the range stainless too.
An old knife with a decent patina is a wonderful sight, undeniable.
Custom pocket knives are usually in some form of top of the range stainless too.
An old knife with a decent patina is a wonderful sight, undeniable.
- Joined
- Mar 29, 2002
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- 2,342
I hear people saying how they live in a humid environment and their knives rust right in thier pockets. I don't believe it.
I agree, I don't get that one. Personally I enjoy what I call "The Zen of the stone" freehand sharpening on an Arkansas stone w/water. I get a very satisfying hair popping edge on my cv's and other carbons. A good one on most stainless as well but not as 'Zen". BTW I hate AUS 6 haven't had a decent time sharpening one with that particular steel yet-burrs like crazy and the edge rolls all the time. I have a hierarchy of favorite steels and I wont bore anyone by listing them but 1095 and Case cv are right near the top. Also patina DOES tell a story.
I agree, I don't get that one. Personally I enjoy what I call "The Zen of the stone" freehand sharpening on an Arkansas stone w/water. I get a very satisfying hair popping edge on my cv's and other carbons. A good one on most stainless as well but not as 'Zen". BTW I hate AUS 6 haven't had a decent time sharpening one with that particular steel yet-burrs like crazy and the edge rolls all the time. I have a hierarchy of favorite steels and I wont bore anyone by listing them but 1095 and Case cv are right near the top. Also patina DOES tell a story.
The story it tells me is "my blade is stained".
I prefer shiny. Maybe if my dad had been a knife guy and routinely carried a patined CV bladed knife I'd feel differently but the first knives I saw and carried were stainless.
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Same here. I've never had a problem with carbon steel rusting, even growing up near the ocean in southeast Florida. Staining? Sure. But not rusting. One my last skiing trip, I carried my yella Case cv trapper in the chest pocket of my parka. Lots of moisture from my body warmth, but no rust. It got a lot of use cutting up sausages and apples, etc. for the kids.
I'm definitely not a cv or carbon steel snob. In fact, the knives I seem to carry most are stainless. But if Victorinox ever makes a cv SAK I'm all over that bad boy!
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I'm not sure about that figure either. I've been very impressed with the Case Tru-Sharp blades' ability to hold their edges, especially after I had learned how to reprofile and put a more acute bevel on 'em. I reprofiled my large Case stockman (10375 SS) to very acute, scapel sharp on all three blades, and they've held up very well. I'm inclined to believe that the hardness figures being discussed here and there are somewhat understated (or perhaps outdated). And I've never seen or heard any such figures coming directly from Case themselves. The numbers always seem to come from elsewhere, which to me, makes them at least a little bit suspect.
There may be some justification in lower hardness values in some of the older Case knives (maybe 1980's or earlier), but of the newer knives I've seen from them (post-2000 especially), I've got no complaints about their ability to hold an edge at least as long as with the CV knives.
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I have a great carbon steel Dexter boning knife that my Granddad started using probably in the 50s at least, according to my dad. It sits in our knife block in the kitchen alongside some high-dollar German and Japanese knives and gets used a lot. My wife loves it, it's her go-to knife when a really sharp blade is called for. It has an incredibly rich gray patina, and imparts no funny taste to the food, no matter what you're cutting. Funny thing too, it spends a lot of time sitting wet in the sink after use (for the life of me, I can't get my wife to understand that a carbon steel blade should be cleaned and dried after each use :grumpy: ) and I never ever oil the blade ...... but, no rust. Oh sure, once in awhile it might get a wee bit of surface rust, but the scrubby side of the sponge takes that off in no time.
You or me. I have very acidic sweat and I lived in north and south Florida. When they say it rusts in their pockets I don't believe it. Just keep the blade dry before you put it in your pocket and it will always be fine.
Modoc ED
Gold Member
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Hey we all have our own experiences to relate but I don't get the "carbon steel knives rust in your pocket" claims.
I lived in Venice, Florida for years and carried a CV 4 1/8" Case Trapper in my right front pocket wherever I went and that included saltwater fishing at the beach, saltwater fishing on boats and freshwater fishing on inland lakes too. Now to be honest, I used other knives that were in my fishing tackle boxes when fishing for cutting bait, line, etc. but that Case Trapper rode in my pocket at all times and got wet regularly. The only thing I ever did to it was oil it and wipe it down with oil after each fishing trip or whenever I used it and it never rusted. That's just my experience with one of my knives with CV blade steel.
I lived in Venice, Florida for years and carried a CV 4 1/8" Case Trapper in my right front pocket wherever I went and that included saltwater fishing at the beach, saltwater fishing on boats and freshwater fishing on inland lakes too. Now to be honest, I used other knives that were in my fishing tackle boxes when fishing for cutting bait, line, etc. but that Case Trapper rode in my pocket at all times and got wet regularly. The only thing I ever did to it was oil it and wipe it down with oil after each fishing trip or whenever I used it and it never rusted. That's just my experience with one of my knives with CV blade steel.
DennisStrickland
BANNED
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personally i like carbon & s.s. 1095 is a favorite of mine but i have knives in 440c,vg10,d2, zdp189, m4 & a bunch of others. really its simple if one doe'st like staining do'nt buy carbon. in any case we need to remember all the earlier sailors & soldiers carried only carbon for centuries & accomplished their tasks.
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Well, it happens to me. Any of my stainless Spydercos will have a few rust spots after being carried for a single day. Bead blasted knives like some of my Kershaws are even worse.
I'm very active, I don't spend summer sitting in an air conditioned office, so the knives get quite a bit of sweat on them. That's why I'm loving H1 steel!
I try to carry my traditional knives in a sheath to afford them a bit of extra protection. But just wiping them down with some mineral oil at night is enough to keep them protected.