D-2 or ZDP-189

At the risk of causing Vasilii's wrath, I'd say ZDP-189. Especially if you get it HTed 65+...
For light cutting at least.
If you want hard use, neither will be all that good compared to other steels.
 
Gator97 said:
At the risk of causing Vasilii's wrath, I'd say ZDP-189. Especially if you get it HTed 65+...
For light cutting at least.
If you want hard use, neither will be all that good compared to other steels.
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Yes, but compared to each other, wouldn't properly heat treated D2 be in the lead for hard use? Especially given the tendency ZDP has to chip?

I also believe that Bob Dozier makes most of his knives to be work horses.
 
Id say ZDP, but thats just based on my own cutting observations. Aint got no fancy charts and tests to refer to.
 
Noctis3880 said:
Yes, but compared to each other, wouldn't properly heat treated D2 be in the lead for hard use? Especially given the tendency ZDP has to chip?

I also believe that Bob Dozier makes most of his knives to be work horses.
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If you take ZDP down too thin it will chip. :)

I put a 15 degree per side micro-bevel on my Endura 4 FFG because I thinned it out too much to be stable. It's good now though. :thumbup:
 
Noctis3880 said:
Yes, but compared to each other, wouldn't properly heat treated D2 be in the lead for hard use? Especially given the tendency ZDP has to chip?
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Compared to each other D2 would be perhaps tougher, which is why I mentioned light cutting specifically :)
Also, depending on what "hard use" is, D2 might be just as inadequate. Then I'd go with INFI or CPM 3V, etc...
If the use is light to moderate, then grinding thicker edge ~15 per side or so on ZDP-189 would still be sufficient, even if it's at 67HRC.
But for cutting soft materials, rope, cardboard, etc, ZDP-189 at high hardness will last longer and will be able to do the same cutting with thinner edge, simply because of the higher hardness.

I disagree on ZDP-189 being chippy. Well, if one has never handled 65-67HRC knives may be it seems chippy to them, but for what it, even with 20 inclusive angle (10 per side) it lasts very long times for light cutting.

A while back I did test cutting with several very hard blades, ZDP-189 being one of them, William Henry spearpoint, 67HRC. With 15 per side edge it didn't chip on aluminum and copper/steel wiring.
 
ditto to gator zdp will cut circles around d2 . if you want a tuff, hard use knife ,skip d2 & go to3v.
dennis
 
Sheer edge-holding goes to ZDP-189 (& I honestly think SG2 is up there, too). D2's edge-holding is very good & I like it as well as S30V (I think CPM D2 is a little better, in edge-holding than regular D2).

As for toughness, I don't think either blade steel is known for it, at least not in the sense of using it on a chopper or something similar.
 
knarfeng has really put these alloys to the acid test & i feel he knows of which he says. of course Phil Wilson may have time to grace us with his opinions.
dennis
 
ZDP is awesome as long as you don't thin out the edge too much. :D

Around 15 degrees per side and it will hold an edge for almost forever or so it seems. :thumbup:
 
Ankerson said:
ZDP is awesome as long as you don't thin out the edge too much. :D

Around 15 degrees per side and it will hold an edge for almost forever or so it seems. :thumbup:
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I would agree with this. My ZDP knives are fantastic, and take a huge beating without needing much. D2 is great too, but the ZDP outshines it for me.
 
SteelSnob said:
Cpm154 60hrc
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I didn't see that steel on the list???

I also don't see it holding an edge longer than ZDP especially at 65+ HRC. I also think ZDP stays Sharp longer than D2 from my experiences but the D2 wasn't super hard.
 
FlaMtnBkr said:
I didn't see that steel on the list???

I also don't see it holding an edge longer than ZDP especially at 65+ HRC. I also think it stays Sharp longer than D2 from my experiences but the D2 wasn't super hard.
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CPM 154 is just one of those steels that is so good that if one gets a chance to own a knife in it they should get it. :thumbup:

It won't hold an edge as long as ZDP, but it's a lot tougher. :)

It's not the same as 154CM....
 
FlaMtnBkr said:
I didn't see that steel on the list???

I also don't see it holding an edge longer than ZDP especially at 65+ HRC. I also think ZDP stays Sharp longer than D2 from my experiences but the D2 wasn't super hard.
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In the case of the knives I measured, neither was super-hard.
I measured the hardness of both blades that I tested:
ZDP-189 was 62.09
D2 was 61.60

I'd call that the same hardness. The ZDP-189 held an edge quite a bit better than the D2. Had the ZDP-189 been even harder, it would have been even better in edge retention.
 
Ankerson said:
CPM 154 is just one of those steels that is so good that if one gets a chance to own a knife in it they should get it. :thumbup:

It won't hold an edge as long as ZDP, but it's a lot tougher. :)

It's not the same as 154CM....
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I know it is quite a bit different than the non CPM version. And it is an all around great steel. But I don't think it will hold an edge longer than ZDP which is what the OP asked about.
 
For the record, Yoahikane(Japanese kitchen knife maker) hardens their D2 knives(SKD11 in JIS standard) to 64HRC, that's noticeably higher than average D2 in wester world.
Works pretty good for a chef's knife, some of the folks sharpen it to 10-11 deg per side. There were reports about chipping, but I haven't had or seen same reports on ZDP-189 which routinely gets hardened to 64-67HRC range.
 
Gator97 said:
For the record, Yoahikane(Japanese kitchen knife maker) hardens their D2 knives(SKD11 in JIS standard) to 64HRC, that's noticeably higher than average D2 in wester world.
Works pretty good for a chef's knife, some of the folks sharpen it to 10-11 deg per side. There were reports about chipping, but I haven't had or seen same reports on ZDP-189 which routinely gets hardened to 64-67HRC range.
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My Endura 4 FFG in ZDP had micro chips along most of the edge after the EDC video I shot. But then it was at 9 Degrees per side.

I put a 15 degree per side micro-bevel on it today.
 
I figure your use was quite harder than a chef's knife :)
Interesting part is, what would happen if you had D2 at 63-64HRC, with 9 per side angle for the same test.
 
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