D2 and 1095 makes a comeback why not 440C

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ROBB

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I noticed D2 is being used by more companies and knifemakers. I just read the article in Blade Mag "Retro Steels". Once in a while there is a decent article written. D2 was a pretty common steel used by custom makers yrs ago. It pretty much faded away except for some makers such as Dozier and others. The blade industry treated D2 and 1095 as outdated steel and mostly switched to new stainless and other carbon steels. Both these steels were relatively low priced compaired to the newer steels. Eventually a lot of the public viewed them as cheaper steels also. I believe both these steels are fine if they are heat treated well. I also think 440C is a good steel which has fell out of favor with the knife crowd.
In the article it mentioned these companies using D2 steel:
1.Benchmade
2.Blackhawk
3.Canal Street Cutlery
4.DiamondBlade
5.Ka-Bar
6.Kershaw
7.Knives of Alaska
8.Ontario
9.Queen
The following companies use 1095 steel
1.Benchmade
2.Great Eastern Cutlery Co.
3.Ka-Bar
4.Ontario
5.Rat Cutlery
6.TOPS
The Blade article mentioned the good qualities D2 has as well as other carbon steels now used such as: A2, 01, 0170-6, 1050, 1055, 1075, 1085, 1085C, 1095, 1095CV, SK5, CPM 3V, INFI, C70. What it didn't say was why is D2 now considered an elite steel when 10 yrs ago it wasn't. Benchmade switched from 154cm to D2. Other companies( Ontario, Queen, etc.) switched from stainless to D2. What I'm curious about is why has D2 and 1095made a comeback and not 440C. Its not price,their all relatively cheap. Also do many of you feel Benchmade's choice of D2 over 154cm and ATS-34 was a good switch. I would lke to see your comments.
 
For myself, I'm not a big fan of stainless becuase i prefer the balance of edge retention/strength that you get from the non stainless. If other people see it the same way, that may help to explain why 440c hasn't mounted a big comback. As far as the slide benchmade has made toward d2 as apposed to 154cm or even ats-34, I'm liking it. I've actually got the 201 on order and it should be here by early next week, so I'm looking forward to seeing how well their D2 comes out.

I've always felt that 440c is a great steel for a backup knife. One you might sheath, throw in your bag and forget about, just in case your other knife fails you while out on the trail. The advantage is has for this purpose is that it won't break the bank, and it won't rust while it's chillin out in there. But for everyday use, i just don't feel it has the edge retention I need.

That's my 1.5cents anyways :)
 
I like the performance of 440C. I think there are so many who have been confused by the performance of "440 stainless" or the performance of Chines knives marked "440C" that are actually a different alloy, that 440C has gotten a bad rap.
 
I've gone off D2 for folders - I keep getting pitting on the blades despite scrupulous up keep. I must have toxic sweat or something. :grumpy:

If I'm going to get pitting like that, I might as well use carbon steel, or a real stainless -

So my recent folders have been 440C - one from Great Eastern and one from Canal Street. And S30V -a Para-Military from Spyderco.

Pitting problems solved! :thumbup:
 
I've been told the pitting can be solved by proper heat treat. I've heard that Dozier's don't pit. But i've never had one.
 
So my recent folders have been 440C - one from Great Eastern and one from Canal Street.
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I didn't know they were using 440C. Maybe there is hope for a comeback.
 
D2 is a steel "dejour". Seems everybody, i.e. the larger manufacturers, is now or recently did make a knife with the steel. I think D2's popularity has more to due with the reputation a few custom makers' products have achieved versus any real advantage. D2, when heat treated right (I think I have only 3 such) is a good steel.

I suspect what is occuring is a backlash against stainless steels. A couple of decades of tenacious wire edge prone stainless steels has resulted in an appreciation for carbon steel's properties of often taking a crisp edge with little sharpening fuss.

Not a big fan of 440c, myself, to the extent that I rarely even consider buying a knife made with it. 440c sure does polish well and is pretty rust resistant.

As to Benchmade's choice of going with D2, I can understand it from a marketing standpoint - but I question the long term prospects. For most daily carry needs, I think 154cm is superior to D2. Seems counter to the above noted "backlash", but in reality most folding knives really do benifit from being relatively stainless.

Benchmade seems to heat treat their 154cm better than their D2, IMO. Choosing a steel for longterm production must be a difficult choice, though, as there is a lot of PFM involved.
 
ROBB said:
The following companies use 1095 steel
1.Benchmade
2.Great Eastern Cutlery Co.
3.Ka-Bar
4.Ontario
5.Rat Cutlery
6.TOPS
The Blade article mentioned the good qualities D2 has as well as other carbon steels now used such as: A2, 01, 0170-6, 1050, 1055, 1075, 1085, 1085C, 1095, 1095CV, SK5, CPM 3V, INFI, C70. What it didn't say was why is D2 now considered an elite steel when 10 yrs ago it wasn't. Benchmade switched from 154cm to D2. Other companies( Ontario, Queen, etc.) switched from stainless to D2. What I'm curious about is why has D2 and 1095made a comeback and not 440C. Its not price,their all relatively cheap. Also do many of you feel Benchmade's choice of D2 over 154cm and ATS-34 was a good switch. I would lke to see your comments.
Click to expand...

Which Benchmade models have been produced in 1095? I seem to have missed them.
 
elkins45 said:
Which Benchmade models have been produced in 1095? I seem to have missed them.
Click to expand...

I believe the same could be asked of KaBar. The blades of their non-stainless knives are 1095CV, an alloy steel rather than 1095, a plain carbon steel. They have been for years.
 
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I think 440C is an excellent steel when it really is American made 440C that has been well heat treated. I have a Northwoods Skinner which is 440C and is very good about maintaining a very sharp edge.
The problem is that there are a lot of knife companies that label their knives as 440C (S&W, imported Schrade and Gerber) that may state that their knives are made of 440C but the best that can be said is that they are made from an equivalent grade steel. By all accounts neither Taiwan or mainland China has any true 440C steel.
Is 440C the equal of D-2 or ats-34? Not if each gets the heat treatment that the metal deserves. But for most knife users 440C makes an excellent knife blade.
Check out Entrek knives, german made Boker knives made of 440C or the above mentioned Northwoods knife if you would like to see how good the often dismissed 440C can be.
 
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MorkalebKN said:
I've actually got the 201 on order and it should be here by early next week
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not to hijack the thread, but please post your impressions when you have a chance to check out the 201. I might be in the market for one, and it never hurts to hear from many people before making up my mind.

Thanks.
 
I have 2 BMs in 440C.. both are fantastic for EDC and camping applications. I think people know about 440 and 440A, so as soon as they hear "440.." they immediatley turn up their noses. 440C is actually a pretty good steel.

As far as BMs switch to D2 over 154CM... I dont own any D2s, so I cant say, but I dont think 154CM should be thrown out completely. It's a great steal for EDC and hard use.

I love KA-BAR's 1095 and hopefully i'll get a Rat soon and can tell you how much I love theirs too.
 
there is a bar graph that gets posted up here every once in a while showing crucible's ratings of toughness and wear resistance of the various steels. by that graph, 440c and D2 are not far apart, performance wise. i have an older griptilian in 440c and i love it. how about some CPM-440c?
 
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