Damascus/ivory hunter

It's a beautiful knife, Mr. York, and Mr. Bradshaw.
Are you going to use it?
 
Classic beauty, thank you for sharing.

Your photography has improved tremendously too.
 
WOW!! That knife makes my heart go pitter patter!! I love everything about that knife. I would be thrilled if that was my knife.
 
FANTASTIC knife Bailey!

Very elegant, yet a true workhorse at heart.

If that is headed to Alto, then I will be making the "using" version of that soon in 3V and Ironwood (or stag or micarta :) ).

It is a very solid design with a lot of sound reasoning behind it. :thumbup:

Why, do you think a hunting knife needs a dropped edge or choil?

First of all Anthony I didn't say it needed one. Since the extent or deliberativeness of design had been mentioned by two posters I was just curious as to why Will opted for a straight blade.

Personally, I would prefer a dropped edge for the following reasons:

1) For ease in sharpening.
2) For some skinning tasks its nice to be able to choke the racasso with the first finger for greater leverage. The dropped edge or choil reduces risk of being cut.
3) The plunge/choil is an additional feature to demonstrate the forger's skill that IMO adds to a custom forged knife.
4) IMO, from an aesthetic standpoint, it would make a very fine hunter even finer.

Other than that feature, I like the knife very much.
 
Kevin,

I have to admit it has been a while since I have made a knife without a dropped choil. Glad I remembered how to do it :D

From my experience, on larger game where you may be making deeper cuts, the dropped choil can snag. I made the ricasso long enough to accomodate choking up in front of the guard, but I rarely ever do that with my finger under the ricasso. I pinch the sides of the ricasso with my thumb and middle finger with my index finger on the spine.

All this is to say that while astheticly the dropped choil would look more normal to my forger's eye, but Will is in this for function first, and I agree with his desicion. ( I know you weren't saying it needed it, just wanted to give my thoughts)
 
Kevin,

I have to admit it has been a while since I have made a knife without a dropped choil. Glad I remembered how to do it :D

From my experience, on larger game where you may be making deeper cuts, the dropped choil can snag. I made the ricasso long enough to accomodate choking up in front of the guard, but I rarely ever do that with my finger under the ricasso. I pinch the sides of the ricasso with my thumb and middle finger with my index finger on the spine.

All this is to say that while astheticly the dropped choil would look more normal to my forger's eye, but Will is in this for function first, and I agree with his desicion. ( I know you weren't saying it needed it, just wanted to give my thoughts)

My experience mirrors yours on a knife intended as an "elk-sized" skinner, as this one clearly is. Form follows function.
While skinning bears in alaska, knives with large,dropped choils were a hindrance. In fact, the best knives were knives with reasonably large, rounded guards, almost completely without working choils and lanyards. When your hands are wet and numb, choking up on the blade really isn't an option and its easy to drop your knife in the soup..

For medium sized game and most deer, a small knife with dropped edge works fine, especially if the choil is well rounded and semi-sharp.

I am sure someone will step up and talk about how they skin deer with a broken beer bottle but thats just my experience and the experience of a few VERY experienced hunters I live vicariously through. Carry on gents.
 
Personally, I would prefer a dropped edge for the following reasons:

1) For ease in sharpening.
2) For some skinning tasks its nice to be able to choke the racasso with the first finger for greater leverage. The dropped edge or choil reduces risk of being cut.
3) The plunge/choil is an additional feature to demonstrate the forger's skill that IMO adds to a custom forged knife.
4) IMO, from an aesthetic standpoint, it would make a very fine hunter even finer.

Other than that feature, I like the knife very much.

Hi Kevin,

You know, this aspect has been debated so many times here that I don’t know what more there is to add, and I think Bailey and Anthony pretty much summed up my feelings. Since you asked my reasons, I’ll be happy to reply——hope it’s not too tedious.

I personally like a blade that glides in all the way to the hilt and comes back out the same way without hanging up on that little heel of the edge protruding below a choil, as mentioned above. It’s not a big deal—I’ve used knives with choils many times to skin and butcher game, and it’s just a matter of taking care not to hang that little heel. In past discussions, I know Jerry Fisk has opined that if the heel is sharp it should cut its way back out without hanging, and I think that’’s a good point. But whenever I butcher an animal of deer size or larger with a choiled blade, two or three times during the process I’’ll hang that little heel and be reminded why I prefer the bottom of the ricasso to come off the edge in a straight line.

Actually, with a 5.5” blade length, there are not many situations in which I sink the blade in all the way to the hilt. But there are some—such as taking out the backstraps on a bull elk. And it so happens that there is a very thick membrane covering that muscle, so on every draw cut, I’’m apt to hang that little heel in that tough, rubbery membrane.

I think your points are all perfectly good and a matter of personal choice.

As for me, 1) I don’t mind taking a little care when sharpening to start precisely on the edge and avoid the ricasso. 2) I find that with a wide ricasso like the one Bailey left on this knife, there’’s plenty of room to choke up, wrapping the index finger around the bottom of the ricasso. One of the features I asked of Bailey was to radius the bottom of the ricasso (as well as the top of the spine) to make this maneuver very comfortable. With the knife held this way, the guard can be held firmly between the middle finger and index finger, keeping the index finger from moving out on the edge——I’’ve never cut myself in this hold, as it’’s very secure. I don’’t use it so much for skinning, but when working around joints and for other point-work it’s a great help as you mention to be able to choke up on a longer blade like this. 3) As for the ease of forging, I wouldn’t know——I’ve heard opinions both ways, but I’m not a maker. And finally, from a cosmetic standpoint, 4) I think the subtle upward angle of the edge/ricasso as it approaches the guard, flowing visually into the slightly downward-arced bottom line of the handle as it leaves behind the guard, is an especially masterful touch. Bailey’’s accomplishment of this is so subtle, I would imagine that many people looking at that knife wouldn’’t notice those are not straight lines, but they add a wonderful flow to my eye that easily gets my vote over a choil. Again——just personal preference.

I think it’s a little funny that, even with the detailed description I sent Bailey along with the sketch, I never mentioned the lack of a choil to him. My sketch showed how I wanted it, and he never asked——just did it that way.
 
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Thanks for the responses as my curiosity has now been quenched.
I can see how the choil hanging up in larger game could be a pain and I did notice how nicely the racasso is rounded for comfort.
Again, a very nice hunter.

Will, have you decided on a sheath?
 
So the simple answer to the question is that the customer wanted it that way....nuff said:D
 
Kevin,

I also made a sheath for this one. Pouch type with a cross ride strap, coverd in elephant hide. I didn't get a picture of it before sending it. Maybe Will can provide.

Perhaps not politicly correct, but elephant leather is VERY cool. I made myself a rifle cartridge carrier in it. With a little wear, it takes on a burnished sheen. I also made a leather covered recoil pad for my 20ga shotgun. I am saving some for a pair of boots when I can afford it.
 
I personally like a blade that glides in all the way to the hilt and comes back out the same way without hanging up on that little heel of the edge protruding below a choil, as mentioned above. It’s not a big deal—I’ve used knives with choils many times to skin and butcher game, and it’s just a matter of taking care not to hang that little heel. In past discussions, I know Jerry Fisk has opined that if the heel is sharp it should cut its way back out without hanging, and I think that’s a good point. But whenever I butcher an animal of deer size or larger with a choiled blade, two or three times during the process I’ll hang that little heel and be reminded why I prefer the bottom of the ricasso to come off the edge in a straight line.........

I don’t mind taking a little care when sharpening to start precisely on the edge and avoid the ricasso.
I find that with a wide ricasso like the one Bailey left on this knife, there’s plenty of room to choke up, wrapping the index finger around the bottom of the ricasso. One of the features I asked of Bailey was to radius the bottom of the ricasso (as well as the top of the spine) to make this maneuver very comfortable. With the knife held this way, the guard can be held firmly between the middle finger and index finger, keeping the index finger from moving out on the edge—I’ve never cut myself in this hold, as it’s very secure. I don’t use it so much for skinning, but when working around joints and for other point-work it’s a great help as you mention to be able to choke up on a longer blade like this.

As for the ease of forging, I wouldn’t know—I’ve heard opinions both ways, but I’m not a maker.

And finally, from a cosmetic standpoint, I think the subtle upward angle of the edge/ricasso as it approaches the guard, flowing visually into the slightly downward-arced bottom line of the handle as it leaves behind the guard, is an especially masterful touch. Bailey’s accomplishment of this is so subtle, I would imagine that many people looking at that knife wouldn’t notice those are not straight lines, but they add a wonderful flow to my eye that easily gets my vote over a choil. Again—just personal preference.

I think it’s a little funny that, even with the detailed description I sent Bailey along with the sketch, I never mentioned the lack of a choil to him. My sketch showed how I wanted it, and he never asked—just did it that way.

This IS a great example where a custom knife was made
according to knowledgeable specifications given by a client
who speaks from many years of experience using a knife
in the field.
On top of all that, the customer is extremely happy,
everybody agrees that the knife is a beauty and most
of us learnt a few things on the way.....

Not many knife related threads nowadays that are this optimistic....... :)

All the best,
David Darom (ddd)
 
I'm not a fan of choils, I've had them hang up while working on an animal. Yes I know that technique plays a part in that but when you're cold, wet and working by the light of a sputtering coleman lantern, sometimes your technique isn't perfect. :p

The knife is absolutely beautiful. I can't think of any adjectives.... It's Baileyicious?
 
Kevin,

I also made a sheath for this one. Pouch type with a cross ride strap, coverd in elephant hide. I didn't get a picture of it before sending it. Maybe Will can provide.

Perhaps not politicly correct, but elephant leather is VERY cool. I made myself a rifle cartridge carrier in it. With a little wear, it takes on a burnished sheen. I also made a leather covered recoil pad for my 20ga shotgun. I am saving some for a pair of boots when I can afford it.
These days, it is hard enough to remember what is legal to use in what country, much less PC.:( I had a Kenny Rowe sheath covered in elephant hide for a Fisk Sendero and it was petty cool looking.
 
Kevin,

I also made a sheath for this one. Pouch type with a cross ride strap, coverd in elephant hide. I didn't get a picture of it before sending it. Maybe Will can provide.

Sheath is just like the knife--stout, functional and gorgeous. Kinda fun to reunite the ivory with the elephant hide--talk about a tribute piece. Using the largest and arguably the greatest game animal on the face of the planet for "parts". Now I'm SURE that sentiment is politically incorrect. :D

BBinSheath.jpg BBwithSheath.jpg BradshawID.jpg
 
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