Dark ops are in

mkent20 said:
If you carry a knife(or gun) that is advertised to be good to carry to kill covertly or kill better than other brands of knives...
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Well Dark Ops isn't the first to do this, Strider used to reference wound channels for the tip designs, where to stab people, etc. .


"The Kidneys are a non-elastomeric organ. They are not like your skin; they don’t stretch and bounce back. They are full of blood and easily reachable. Most importantly, they are accessible from behind.
Often when attacking someone with a knife (if your using a knife against someone it is an attack, even in a defensive encounter), the individual will turn their back and ball up. It is a natural reaction to having your important parts attacked. The Kidneys are a good target at this time. If the person is wearing body armor, the rectum is an excellent target as well."

or how about :

"I like the choke em out and kill em later technique. Killing someone quietly with a knife is no damn fun."

Consider those words in the same senario you described.

Mick on occasion would go so far as to attack people who critized them for lack of performance in utility work (ergonomics for example), as they were "WAR" knives.

Lots of makers promote the fighting aspect of their knives, tips designed for backcuts, the ability to carry concealed due to low printing of kydex sheaths etc. .

Dark Ops is more extreme than most (control bodily fluid display), but the same general ideas is fairly common and has been around a long time, the whole blood groove for example to prevent a knife from getting stuck in the body cavity.

-Cliff
 
please, do not make me deanimate you!:mad:

woot woot

I made a funny, while controlling 'blood spray'

no offense to the initial poster, at all!:cool: ;)
 
Revierler said:
The how about inventing tactical sex? :eek:
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well... um..

Cliff Stamp said:
"--
Often when attacking someone with a knife (if your using a knife against someone it is an attack, even in a defensive encounter), the individual will turn their back and ball up. It is a natural reaction to having your important parts attacked. The Kidneys are a good target at this time. If the person is wearing body armor, the rectum is an excellent target as well."
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:rolleyes: ;)
 
Way-O, that was WAY funny dude!!!

Thanks for the information Cliff - I now have another reason to disdain Strider knives as well. I mean WTF?!?!

To me, a blade is sacred - more so than any other type of weapon. That's just how I feel about them. They deserve a certain amount of respect. From the maker, from the buyer - and from the manufacturer's advertising people too.

Deliberately catering to the mall ninja crowd by putting crap like that in your ads is totally inexcuseable IMO. Advocating stabbing a downed opponent in the kidney while they are in the fetal position is fvcked. I don't see why anyone would give their hard earned money to someone who would put crap like that in their ads...

PMFs!!!
 
Rat Finkenstein said:
Suv commercials? Like the one where it has specially designed wheels for running over people, and bullet proof cup holders with drain holes for tactical spill relief? Dont forget the quartz- encrusted Aramid Composite steering wheel with textured finger grooves to help orient the wheel in pitch darkness, and the teflon coated running boards and mudflaps with deep channels to control puddle spray. ?? Yeah that one- the Denimatordeluxoslaughter-fest 9000- nice SUV, killed dozens of Al qaeda last week and my grill still doesnt need sharpening! What an awesome rig! :D :p
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Did you ever notice how many supposedly off-road vehicles have aluminum wheels? Hit a rock, throw out your wheel.

Did you ever notice how many "tactical knives" have stoopid points, grooves, etc. that would catch in tissue or clothing in a real fight?

Sometimes it's sooo easy to recognize a poser!
 
Cliff Stamp said:
Well Dark Ops isn't the first to do this, Strider used to reference wound channels for the tip designs, where to stab people, etc. .


"The Kidneys are a non-elastomeric organ. They are not like your skin; they don’t stretch and bounce back. They are full of blood and easily reachable. Most importantly, they are accessible from behind.
Often when attacking someone with a knife (if your using a knife against someone it is an attack, even in a defensive encounter), the individual will turn their back and ball up. It is a natural reaction to having your important parts attacked. The Kidneys are a good target at this time. If the person is wearing body armor, the rectum is an excellent target as well."

or how about :

"I like the choke em out and kill em later technique. Killing someone quietly with a knife is no damn fun."

Consider those words in the same senario you described.

Mick on occasion would go so far as to attack people who critized them for lack of performance in utility work (ergonomics for example), as they were "WAR" knives.

Lots of makers promote the fighting aspect of their knives, tips designed for backcuts, the ability to carry concealed due to low printing of kydex sheaths etc. .

Dark Ops is more extreme than most (control bodily fluid display), but the same general ideas is fairly common and has been around a long time, the whole blood groove for example to prevent a knife from getting stuck in the body cavity.

-Cliff
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We are talking about Dark Ops advertising practices here that are what bothers people, correct?

So, can you point me in the direction of the Strider Advertisment that says all that above? Sounds like they had to take out a full page for that one. I'm also failing to see where any of the above touts one brand of knife over the other for executing the techniques. It looks like generic military tactical advice to my eyes, but perhaps I'm missing something?

Thanks,

Michelle
 
Michelle said:
I'm also failing to see where any of the above touts one brand of knife over the other for executing the techniques.
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That part does not, it just address the aspect of promoting knives as direct killing tools in a fairly direct and brutal way.

Lots of other comments as noted directly refer to thier knives specifically as having features to enhance the lethality such as the tips and wound channels, and so on and how their knives are made with those uses in mind. As noted even going so far as to critize comments about utility applications.

Don't know about ads, I don't read the magazines. These were comments made on a public forum however with traffic which is in the millions of hits per day, it would be hard to argue a lesser audience. It is naive to assume such comments by a maker don't rank similar to ads in magazines for publicity effects.

This of course isn't support for the nonsense that Dark Ops ranted about with directional blood groves and so on, simply to point out that advocating the use of knives as weapons has been around a long time, and some of it very direct. I recently asked about the cutting ability of a Randall and was informed that the design allowed the removal of enemy heads in war on more than one occasion.

In fact it is fairly common for makers to refer to the superiority of their knives as they are used by "high speed operators" this military promotion obviously uses which are more radical than simple edc tasks as otherwise why use that line. A tradesman does far more utility work than a navy seal with a knife on any given day. The implied deanimation is just not there.

Dark Ops just went farther and got ridiculus and insensible. But you can't cast blame on them for the general notion of "killing tools" and so on. It isn't like a large fighting bowie with a heavy dual guard, sharpened back edge, designed by Bagwell is meant to be used for whittling a spoon.

-Cliff
 
Cliff Stamp said:
That part does not, it just address the aspect of promoting knives as direct killing tools in a fairly direct and brutal way.

Lots of other comments as noted directly refer to thier knives specifically as having features to enhance the lethality such as the tips and wound channels, and so on and how their knives are made with those uses in mind. As noted even going so far as to critize comments about utility applications.

Don't know about ads, I don't read the magazines. These were comments made on a public forum however with traffic which is in the millions of hits per day, it would be hard to argue a lesser audience. It is naive to assume such comments by a maker don't rank similar to ads in magazines for publicity effects.

This of course isn't support for the nonsense that Dark Ops ranted about with directional blood groves and so on, simply to point out that advocating the use of knives as weapons has been around a long time, and some of it very direct. I recently asked about the cutting ability of a Randall and was informed that the design allowed the removal of enemy heads in war on more than one occasion.

In fact it is fairly common for makers to refer to the superiority of their knives as they are used by "high speed operators" this military promotion obviously uses which are more radical than simple edc tasks as otherwise why use that line. A tradesman does far more utility work than a navy seal with a knife on any given day. The implied deanimation is just not there.

Dark Ops just went farther and got ridiculus and insensible. But you can't cast blame on them for the general notion of "killing tools" and so on. It isn't like a large fighting bowie with a heavy dual guard, sharpened back edge, designed by Bagwell is meant to be used for whittling a spoon.

-Cliff
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I understand the points you are making but disagree with the context in which you inserted, out of the blue, another maker's name in here. Your reply was in response to mkent20's observation regarding advertising practices. Advertising. Comments made in a privately owned forum, are not in fact advertising. Traffic numbers etc., aren't at issue here. You are taking a piece of conversation out of context and then representing to people here that this was an advertisement, which is wholly unfair if I may respectfully say so. Then you lead people, who don't know any better, to think this is fact (i.e. post from James Green Dragon). It's a subtle if not circuitous slam on someone who was not even part of the original topic of conversation.

The whole arguement of utility versus killing tool I think in the beginning had the best of intentions for pointing out features and parameters of what knives did what best, no matter who the maker was, even though it has been taken to the point of ridiculousness by some. There are specialties in all walks of life. You yourself have devoted an extensive amount of your time and your obviously high IQ to testing various knives with exactly those parameters in mind. That is, finding out threshholds of various tools to see where they performed well and where they didn't. It would be naive of any of us to think that some knives aren't better for utility purposes than others. Bottom line though is all knives are potentiate for killing. And some have features to them to make that act more smooth or feasable. Say what you will about that, but the fact of the matter is there are some professions where that is a valuble asset.

My concern was that you drug another maker's name in here and made it seem like their advertising practices were like those of Dark Ops... which I feel was an unfair misrepresentation. If Strider knives were in fact not used by the professions they were intended for, nay even endorsed by certain military factions, and if in fact the person(s) giving tactical advice had never been in the field and did not have the real world experience of that which they were talking about, than I would agree with you that it was in the vein of the Dark Ops nonsense being spouted out there. However that is not the case. I feel as though you are mixing apples and oranges here and I just wanted clarification regarding Advertisement practices so that others are not mislead. A conversation regarding survival tactics in a privately owned forum is not an Advertisement.

I do appreciate you taking the time to answer my question.
Take care,
Michelle
 
So for the record, there was no specific mention of stabing a downed opponent in the kidney in Strider's ad correct?

IMO, nothing wrong with saying a particular knife is good for use as a weapon. But to me, the less said about it the better - some things just don't need to be said. And more hype just takes away from them.

Take the understated way (and name) something like the Chinook is marketed for example; it's named after a fish & instead of spouting some nonesense about 'covert deanimations' (I mean really what poser BS...) Spyderco's catalogue merely mentions an acronym (MBC) for combative applications. :cool:
 
James Green Dragon said:
So for the record, there was no specific mention of stabing a downed opponent in the kidney in Strider's ad correct?
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Correct. The Strider comments were in an internet conversation by military people on military techniques, not in an overblown ad intended to catch the public's attention.

Cliff suckered you by indirection, is all. He can't help airing out his grudge against the Strider guys any chance he gets, even if he has to make it up as he goes along.

Integrity. What a concept!
 
Michelle said:
Comments made in a privately owned forum, are not in fact advertising.
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A magazine is also privately owned. Of course comments by makers on the forums which talk about the ability of their knives is advertizing which just means public promotion of an aspect of feature or combination thereof.

If you have a maker talking about choosing a steel he uses because of various features it has, on a forum which gets millions of hits you don't see this as advertizing, I can guarantee you the makers do.

The internet right now is a very important part of a makers advertizing plan. Website setup, forum management, email presence, etc., they all have a huge effect on information transfer about the product.

You are taking a piece of conversation out of context...
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It is in context of representing knives as direct weapons, and discussing such usage in a fairly blunt and open manner on a public forum which has a huge traffic.

...even endorsed by certain military factions
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This is pretty meaningless, you can find extremely low end knives which are chosen by various military groups, and of course Dark Ops have a Paul Basel design so they certainly are not without ability to claim military approval.

As for singling out Strider, as noted I said lots of makers so this all the time, Strider just stands out as the most extreme next to Dark Ops with the fetal position rectum stabbing and so on.

Now you can argue that Dark Ops crossed a line and made themselves more visible, sure, but you can't reall think that the other promotions I mentioned would be helpful in court, it isn't like Dark Ops is 100% guilty and everyone else is virgin pure in that regard.

Look at the strider homepage and specifically the picture of the guy when the knife in his hand, now does that speak of edc utility or covert deanimation? What image of the knives is that trying to represent.

James Green Dragon said:
So for the record, there was no specific mention of stabing a downed opponent in the kidney in Strider's ad correct?
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It wasn't a magazine ad, it was in a post on this forum. Strider was always clear about the weapon nature of their knives. It is readily public domain and in a fairly blunt manner. I would assume lots of other fighting knives are the same, I don't read a lot of those forums. The Strider ones tend to stand out in your memory for obvious reasons.

-Cliff
 
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