Dark ops are in

Cliff Stamp said:
A magazine is also privately owned. Of course comments by makers on the forums which talk about the ability of their knives is advertizing which just means public promotion of an aspect of feature or combination thereof.
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The fact remains, your post was misleading. I simply wanted to clarify that to others. The thread in question was of a military tactical nature. There was no reference in it whatsoever to "the ability of their knives". It was general tactical discussion, wherein the tactics being discussed would be executable with any knife, not a specific brand. A ginsu would work. :) So again, it was not advertisement at all. If there had been a comparison done about why a specific knife make or model should be used for kidney or rectal insertion over another, then I would see your point.

The internet right now is a very important part of a makers advertizing plan. Website setup, forum management, email presence, etc., they all have a huge effect on information transfer about the product.
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To some perhaps. I think Strider bascially likes to keep in touch with their customers and give them an avenue for asking questions and providing good customer service. If they were so concerned about it as a marketing tool, their web site wouldn't be so woefully out of date as you yourself have pointed out in other threads. ;)

It is in context of representing knives as direct weapons, and discussing such usage in a fairly blunt and open manner on a public forum which has a huge traffic.
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Oh dear lord, lol. Knives ARE direct weapons and have been since the beginning of time. It's an inescapable part of the tool. You wouldn't go to a gun forum and a discuss how the butt of your 1911 is good for hammering nails would you? And again, this was a tactical thread. It was not a thread entitled "The virtues of the D-9".

This is pretty meaningless, you can find extremely low end knives which are chosen by various military groups, and of course Dark Ops have a Paul Basel design so they certainly are not without ability to claim military approval.
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I give you that one. You are correct.

As for singling out Strider, as noted I said lots of makers so this all the time, Strider just stands out as the most extreme next to Dark Ops with the fetal position rectum stabbing and so on.
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The two have nothing to do with each other. Cold Steel has done far more DIRECT advertising in this vein as well as others. You chose to only single out one maker by name however and it seemed skewed to me whom you chose to single out.

Look at the strider homepage and specifically the picture of the guy when the knife in his hand, now does that speak of edc utility or covert deanimation? What image of the knives is that trying to represent.
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It depicts the professions that are their core users is what it depicts. I think you are reading more into it than is there. Some companies use beautiful women in their ads, some scantily dressed. What do you read into those ads? Utility? Deanimation? Strip clubs? This is such an odd conversation. :)

It wasn't a magazine ad, it was in a post on this forum. Strider was always clear about the weapon nature of their knives. It is readily public domain and in a fairly blunt manner. I would assume lots of other fighting knives are the same, I don't read a lot of those forums. The Strider ones tend to stand out in your memory for obvious reasons.
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Actually I think the Strider knives as a whole and Mick as an individual tends to stand out in YOUR memory for some reason, but maybe not so much everyone elses. And I say this only based on my observation of many of your posts over a long period of time.

I will be happy to say that we can agree to disagree on this, and leave it there. However I felt you did a disservice to someone via misrepresentation, and I just wanted to set the public record straight.

James Green Dragon, as stated, no. It was not an advertisement. It was a conversation in a forum regarding military tactics [hence body armor references... the general public isn't running around in body armor to my knowledge :) ].

As for naming conventions, like Chinook etc., goes, I agree with you 100%. You will note that all Strider knives are named with initials (MV, HS, SnG, etc.). If that's not an understanded or anti-hype naming convention, than I don't know what is.

Take care,
Michelle
 
Michelle said:
If Strider knives were in fact not used by the professions they were intended for, nay even endorsed by certain military factions, and if in fact the person(s) giving tactical advice had never been in the field and did not have the real world experience of that which they were talking about, than I would agree with you that it was in the vein of the Dark Ops nonsense being spouted out there. However that is not the case. I feel as though you are mixing apples and oranges here and I just wanted clarification regarding Advertisement practices so that others are not mislead. A conversation regarding survival tactics in a privately owned forum is not an Advertisement.

I do appreciate you taking the time to answer my question.
Take care,
Michelle
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Are you trying to say Mr Strider has killed people in combat with a knife? Or for that matter, that a Strider made knife has ever been used to kill someone? :rolleyes:

Btw, can someone post a link to the fetal position rectum stabbing thread, LoL I gotta read that.
 
The discussion of knives as weapons doesn't bother me. I'm trained in FMA myself and am quite comfortable with the idea that just about any knife can be a weapon. I also that certain features can improve the viability of a knife as a weapon and are put there for that purpose.

What I object to is the over-sensationalizing of knives as weapons. DOK is way over the top. Furthermore, their appeal is obviously targetted at the "mall-ninja" "armchair commando" market with talk of special gooves to control blood splatter and such.

I also object to their blatent exploitation of the 9/11 attacks. The video they showed at Bladeshow had a lot of that in it. It's exploitation.
 
Michelle said:
There was no reference in it whatsoever to "the ability of their knives".
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As noted, that was a general commentary on use of knives to kill people, Mick on several occasions talked about the design of his knives specifically such as :

"A tanto tip, the tangent angle of the two grinds to be specific, is an exceptional sweet spot. The slashing penetration is magnificent. Hold a tanto out in a "Im gonna slash you" attitude. Note the way the primary and secondary edges form a little triangle of death."

"To me, the deadliness of a blade is determined not by how hard the wound is to close (they should already be long dead by the time a doctor is on the scene), but by the size of the wound channel itself. I would rather stab using a six inch blade with an inch and a half of width, than a twelve inch blade with an inch of width.
Alternately, if you are after a triangular channel. You can look for a blade that has been ground like I> rather than <>."

You chose to only single out one maker by name ...
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No I noted others like Randall, you just saw Strider, I can name lots of others if you want. A simple search will turn up lots of makers discussing their knives and how the designs are intended to enhance the lethality. I don't see anything wrong with this by the way.

It depicts the professions that are their core users is what it depicts.
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To you, now look at it from the point of view of the court case in the above. Take your strider and defend it in court against all the quotes of them being "war knives" and all the notes about tanto points, blade ratio's, and the makers comments about where to stab, the fairly blunt and graphic manner in which it is done.

Again, I am not saying there is anything wrong with makers disussing the design elements of their knives. Just that you can't single out one company for such an aggressive compain and ignore the fact that this aspect is commonly used by many, often as a critical selling point of their knives.

Now if you want to argue that Dark Ops promotion of several design aspects which are just nonsense (blood control grooves, etc.) that is different, but they are getting hit for a lot more than that, plus even this has its history, as noted the whole blood groove prevents body cavity sticks for example.

Some companies use beautiful women in their ads, some scantily dressed. What do you read into those ads?
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That sex is a strong attractor for most men and the companies are using it to draw attention to their product. It is akin to the speed hole approach to selling knives.

-Cliff
 
Thanks for the debate Cliff... sincerely.

And also thank you for keeping it civil.

Again, we disagree, but we can take that to email if we want rather than waste these folks time. :)

I think we've both made our points here. Others are now left to their opinion. I just wanted to clarify the situation.

Take care,

Michelle
 
It was not to long ago I remember opening my new edition of Blade magazine to see the advertisement for the Dork Ops. I was intrigued for a moment because I collect military Items. Hence the name I chose here of Evil Steel (which may be interpeted the wrong way.) Since the media has the general public beleiving that all things sharp and made of metal must be evil especially if it is carried on a person. However my research quickly found that you can find yourself in a bind simply because the knife you chose to carry has a negative sounding name. So based on that I found no use in the companies marketing and probaly would not buy from them even though the knives are of intrest to me. :yawn:
 
IIRC the paul basel guy claimed to be a SEAL team member, which in fact was BS, he was not, i think in the navy he might have worked with the teams but he was never a member of.
 
SIFU1A said:
IIRC the paul basel guy claimed to be a SEAL team member, which in fact was BS, he was not, i think in the navy he might have worked with the teams but he was never a member of.
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Yet another good reason why nobody should support Dork Ops.
 
I love this forum! Everyone sounds like Cold Steel's flyer chopping at Strider and others about going to blade shows wearing T shirts that give the impression that they are expert ex militery killers (sure they never said Strider but they sure implied it lol) and how they will never make a karambit becaus they are more likely to harm the user than an assailent, only to release a plastic karambit 6 months later. :D
Who cares, If you like a knife buy it, if you do not like it than don't buy it. The lawers will try to make a steak knife look like a combat knife (and usually will) :rolleyes:
 
wow folks. i just post to say that the knives are in and boom bam. 4 pages get typed up. don't you ever get tired of saying the same old stuff? well i guess i would get tired of reading then wouldn't I?

anyone else seen one? what did you think of them?
 
Michelle said:
I understand the points you are making but disagree with the context in which you inserted, out of the blue, another maker's name in here. Your reply was in response to mkent20's observation regarding advertising practices. Advertising. Comments made in a privately owned forum, are not in fact advertising. Traffic numbers etc., aren't at issue here. You are taking a piece of conversation out of context and then representing to people here that this was an advertisement, which is wholly unfair if I may respectfully say so. Then you lead people, who don't know any better, to think this is fact (i.e. post from James Green Dragon). It's a subtle if not circuitous slam on someone who was not even part of the original topic of conversation.

The whole arguement of utility versus killing tool I think in the beginning had the best of intentions for pointing out features and parameters of what knives did what best, no matter who the maker was, even though it has been taken to the point of ridiculousness by some. There are specialties in all walks of life. You yourself have devoted an extensive amount of your time and your obviously high IQ to testing various knives with exactly those parameters in mind. That is, finding out threshholds of various tools to see where they performed well and where they didn't. It would be naive of any of us to think that some knives aren't better for utility purposes than others. Bottom line though is all knives are potentiate for killing. And some have features to them to make that act more smooth or feasable. Say what you will about that, but the fact of the matter is there are some professions where that is a valuble asset.

My concern was that you drug another maker's name in here and made it seem like their advertising practices were like those of Dark Ops... which I feel was an unfair misrepresentation. If Strider knives were in fact not used by the professions they were intended for, nay even endorsed by certain military factions, and if in fact the person(s) giving tactical advice had never been in the field and did not have the real world experience of that which they were talking about, than I would agree with you that it was in the vein of the Dark Ops nonsense being spouted out there. However that is not the case. I feel as though you are mixing apples and oranges here and I just wanted clarification regarding Advertisement practices so that others are not mislead. A conversation regarding survival tactics in a privately owned forum is not an Advertisement.

I do appreciate you taking the time to answer my question.
Take care,
Michelle
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Thank you Michelle!!
John...
 
SIFU1A said:
IIRC the paul basel guy claimed to be a SEAL team member, which in fact was BS, he was not, i think in the navy he might have worked with the teams but he was never a member of.
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Perhaps the Village People wrote "In The Navy" based on his life...
 
It's just marketing, for Pete's sake, folks. If you don't like it, then assume it wasn't aimed at you. Nothing drives me crazier than the Vonage ads with the woo hoo, woo hoo hoo chant. I'd give up communicating before I gave them any of my money. Obviously, the ad isn't aimed at me. The DO ads aren't aimed at you. The Strider ads are. It's pretty simple.

On a side note, I learned that the Dark Ops knives will be shipping next week, or at least some of them so then perhaps people can discuss the knives instead of the ads - assuming anybody on the forum is brave enough to admit having one.
 
Following is a quote from what appears to be Mick speaking about Strider Knives.
Strider Knives, as it currently operates, was founded in 1992. That is when Duane and I got together to design and build the best tools available to the average enlisted soldier. Now this is where design philosophy comes into play. Notice I didn't say ‘Fighting Knives' or anything like that. We never claimed to be in the business of ‘Fighting Knives'. Though we do make them on occasion, we build "Tactical Knives". So lets go ahead right now and clarify just what I mean when I say "Tactical". Ready? ‘MADE FOR WAR'. Period the end. That is what ‘Tactical' means. Made for war. Just because it is made for war, it doesn't necessarily mean ‘made to kill'. Our knives are made to be ‘Tools'. Tools of war, yes. But tools. At the stage (in war) where you need to use your knife to kill, your having an exceptionally bad day and your blade geometry will be the last thing on your mind. Soldiers use guns to kill. Knives are for work. Have people been killed with Strider Knives? Yes. Sorry if that offends you. Do we make knives that are made specifically for killing? Yes. Again, sorry if it offends you. But the bulk of our business is for work. One of the greatest complements given to our company is this... " I own a LOT of knives. But I carry yours". Strider knives are made for soldiers. From the front line, eighteen year old grunt, to the professional. We make knives for work. I suppose its luck for us that knives designed for military work also work well for others. We do a huge amount of law enforcement and industry as well. Have you seen our Model BD? It is designed exclusively for the commercial dive industry.
What it comes down to is this, we take advantage of our tactical background, to build you tools that will not fail. If you work with your knives. We build knives for you. If you're a secret ninja, lurking in the shadows, just on the other side of a metal detector, your weird. But give us a call anyway. We'll hook you up.
There you have it. A little more on the design than the history, but then that's the way we like it.
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I guess that's why my Strider folder doesn't have a blood groove. :grumpy:
 
Oh, and about the rectum thing. It wasn't about Strider Knives. Not even in a Strider forum.
Forum: Battle Blades with Greg Walker
Thread: Why the kidneys?
Pardon my ignorance, but why are the kidneys often specified as anatomical targets when dispatching someone with a knife? How quickly can someone die from stab wounds to this area? Thanks for you help.
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Original Thread
Mick can also answer questions about knife making.
 
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