Death of an Ontario SP8

I want you to know that I don't really disagree with you. However.

http://www.burtfoster.com/steel_heat_treating/carbon_steel.htm

Here's a link were Burt Foster explains his heat treat.

Basically he took his edc and needing to use it as a tool, he split a shingle crossgrain with a hammer. Burt Foster. The blacksmith. THE smith, IMO. And why he modified his H.T.

So, If Burt-Friggin-Foster can hit his knife with a hammer, then who am I to argue?:D
 
He was also using a differencially hardened knife that he made himself out of 52100 spring steel......

A far cry from an off the shelf ontario.
 
You'll also notice that this story is only used as a way of showing why he changed his heat treat method. Nowhere does it say that he tried the same thing with knives that had his new heat treat, or implies that it was any sort of "test" that the first knife failed and the second passed.....

And it's likely that the softness of the original heat treat was the only reason the knife didnt suffer much damage (apart from the denting of course).
 
Exactly. But the point is that he doesn't think a thing about beating on a knife. Cause they are a tool. And made to be used. And good steel, well made should not break when used on a much softer material. Like wood.

Would I beat on a Burt Foster knife? If I ever get my hands on one then HELL NO! But I could if I wanted:rolleyes:.....

Ah well. I enjoyed the conversation. At least this thread didn't deteriorate into a "batoning is abuse" thread. HIT'EM WITH WOOD!!! That's gonna be my new mantra.
 
sirupatespecial said:
Exactly. But the point is that he doesn't think a thing about beating on a knife. Cause they are a tool. And made to be used. And good steel, well made should not break when used on a much softer material. Like wood.

Would I beat on a Burt Foster knife? If I ever get my hands on one then HELL NO! But I could if I wanted:rolleyes:.....

Ah well. I enjoyed the conversation. At least this thread didn't deteriorate into a "batoning is abuse" thread. HIT'EM WITH WOOD!!! That's gonna be my new mantra.
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You're still not getting it:rolleyes:

Oh well, it hardly matters. I'd rather not let this deteriorate to the point where I seem like some kind of Ontario fanboy.
Keep beating on your knives man. I tried to explain it to you, but the bottom line is they aren't mine, so I really shouldnt care;)
 
Wow what's up with all the hate? It seems every other new thread is a recommend me a blade, just got my knife, options on this and that, my review, my collection...

If I recall correctly this is a knife forum to post knife related material. And this seems knife related to me.

Point of post can include, but not limited to: this is how much abuse this knife can take, here is the structual weak point, or hey I accidently broke my knife check it out.

Take a chill pill guys.
 
sirupatespecial said:
NO knife is designed to handle being batonned through knotty oak with a sledgehammer, so how can you say that the design sucks?

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Um, Busse Battle Mistress? How about a Junglas? Becker? Any heavy knife with a full tang and proper temper? Custom knives by many makers? Ang Kola?

I do agree that a sledge hammer is probably not.......Optimal?
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Been more than one Busse, Esee Junglas, and Becker broken. I say that as a fan of all three brands that you mention.

Any knife with a full tang and proper temper can still be broke and just for the record most of the Becker designs do not have a full tang... they are skeletonized.
 
hi , OP, l like your thread here , very cool.
from your did i know the limitation of this kind tang.
thank you .

ps: there are sp gen2 knives here made of 5160 , i think those things are tougher .
 
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Many years ago I was just starting out as a carpenter. The older guy mentoring me had a Stanley 16" ripping bar, the kind with a hexagonal steel shank about 7/8" across the flats. Both ends are forged into pry bars with a center claw. One end is cranked at maybe 15 degrees, and the other at 90 degrees. The corner that bends at 90 degrees receives the hammer blows for both business ends, to drive them into something before prying. After a decade of daily beatings, I witnessed the bar break in two right at the 90 degree bend. Beat even a thick pry bar long and hard enough, and the metal just dies. It is amazing how much abuse that bar took before it gave up the ghost.
 
Bill1170 said:
Many years ago I was just starting out as a carpenter. The older guy mentoring me had a Stanley 16" ripping bar, the kind with a hexagonal steel shank about 7/8" across the flats. Both ends are forged into pry bars with a center claw. One end is cranked at maybe 15 degrees, and the other at 90 degrees. The corner that bends at 90 degrees receives the hammer blows for both business ends, to drive them into something before prying. After a decade of daily beatings, I witnessed the bar break in two right at the 90 degree bend. Beat even a thick pry bar long and hard enough, and the metal just dies. It is amazing how much abuse that bar took before it gave up the ghost.
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hammer wins the long battle.:D
 
dingy said:
hammer wins the long battle.:D
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Yup. EVERY time. For years I used a "cat's paw" style nail puller in my nail bags. I drove those things in wood as deep as needed to get embedded nails out of wood.

There would be no warning, no sign, no nothing... then when getting the ever loving snot beat out of it by a professional nail driver, the head would just snap off. Sometimes those pullers actually lasted for a couple of years. But thousands of strikes from a nearly 1 1/2 lb hammer (Plumb long handled framer) wielded by someone like me, and they might just last a few months. Sooner or later though, even though they were made for that task and to receive that kind of punishment, they all broke.

Robert
 
omenwolf said:
I don't think I'd be smacking a $500 Busse with my sledge, but a $50 10year old Ontario hell yea! It's a tool, tools break especially when abused. What I though was interesting was where it broke. Seeing hard ground 90 degree at the handle. I figured it would break or crack at the sledge impact point. Hit anything with a sledge and eventually its Gunna break.
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Awww.....see that's why we can't have nice stuff.
 
I see it like this. It's his knife he paid for with his money. If he wants to beat it like a rented mule why should I care. It might not make the most sense but it his decision. Also any knife can be broken if beaten on long and hard enough.
 
Narrow fangs are tough as full tangs, it depends upon mainly if the tangs grinds are "boxed" or rounded. This is in reference to where the stock is ground to form the tang. If squared or "boxed", there is a nasty pressure point which can break or snap. In the ontarios i have seen, they are rounded..which is why they can take a beating. Rounding the edge removes the pressure point.
 
10 years of hard use ending in an admitted dumb move, so what's the problem here? The guy got more use out of this one Ontario than most Busses will ever see around here.
 
bored2deth said:
Narrow fangs are tough as full tangs, it depends upon mainly if the tangs grinds are "boxed" or rounded. This is in reference to where the stock is ground to form the tang. If squared or "boxed", there is a nasty pressure point which can break or snap. In the ontarios i have seen, they are rounded..which is why they can take a beating. Rounding the edge removes the pressure point.
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do you mean "sharp corner" ?
 
bored2deth said:
Narrow fangs are tough as full tangs, it depends upon mainly if the tangs grinds are "boxed" or rounded. This is in reference to where the stock is ground to form the tang. If squared or "boxed", there is a nasty pressure point which can break or snap. In the ontarios i have seen, they are rounded..which is why they can take a beating. Rounding the edge removes the pressure point.
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do you mean "sharp corner" ?
 
My guess is that you pushed that 1095 beyond its limit. The SP series in 5160 will take a severe beating.

I have pounded this knife:




With chunks of oak like this:




Through nasty fatwood hundreds of times....



And worn out at least a dozen batons... swinging at this knife as hard as I possibly could... over several years with no problems at all.
I believe it is all in the technique.



EDIT to add:
Why baton...? Because I grade my fatwood in several different categories that requires EXACT placement and control over the sizes I split.
 
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