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Bad Defective Emperor O Tanto Thread Deleted?(Cold Steel Censoring Negative Post)
- Thread starter insta9ves
- Start date
Thanks for the consideration sir. The reason I asked to reopen it is that while it's unfortunate that the OP got a lemon, it's CS' subsequent response, the revelation of their relationship with Coldsteel.de as well as their comment about OP's personality that's more worthy of the GBU.
The other reason is the fact that CS is censoring any negative press on public forums, which is a bad precedence. The act of censoring discussions is also worthy of GBU, which i guess this thread addressed.
I don't see a single reply from the maker in that thread. I see the OP posting hearsay from a dealer in Europe about this.
There is zero proof of any bad acts by Cold Steel. The OP showed up at a party and befouled the punch bowl you don't get applause for that; you get shown the door.
The nonsense about having a cadre of lawyers waiting to jump all over anyone who doesn't supply that guy a sufficient birthday present is amusing.
The host of that sub is under no obligation to let people show up and bash them with no proof. Deleting a thread like that is pest control, not censorship.
- Joined
- Mar 29, 2014
- Messages
- 1,033
Well now, I would not touch a CS product for years and then they brought Demko in, upgraded the steel (XHP) and locking mechanism (Triad) in the Recon folders so I bought one and it was pretty good for the price. Then came the Demko production folders, AD-10 , AD-15, 4 Max etc. that pretty much blew me away for the price but they have upped the prices to more like any other MAP company and now these issues that seem to be popping up every few days are telling me to back off again.
I don't even want to comment on the thread deletion, that is pure bs and reminds me of some other companies and their reps that are no longer on BF (TW anyone?) that could not accept anything less than pure adulation of their products.
I have no idea what happened with that sword but it certainly was not as advertised and I bet the OP would have let it go with an offer to refund or exchange vs "we will change the pics" reply.
I don't even want to comment on the thread deletion, that is pure bs and reminds me of some other companies and their reps that are no longer on BF (TW anyone?) that could not accept anything less than pure adulation of their products.
I have no idea what happened with that sword but it certainly was not as advertised and I bet the OP would have let it go with an offer to refund or exchange vs "we will change the pics" reply.
I posted the original deleted thread. A summary of it:
1. Cold Steel, through their European website http://cold-steel.de sent a replica Emperor O Tanto sword instead of a genuine one to a dear friend, who unknowingly gave it to me as a birthday present. I was pretty amazed upon inspecting it and decided to inquire further. The sword had brass parts, burred edge and many problems.
2. After contacting Cold Steel Europe, their representative Dirk Brüggendick (a very nice and honest guy, BTW) admitted in an e-mail that the sword is indeed different from Cold Steel's advertising, said they would replace it, but could not, since after he checked it turned out that ALL the swords they had from this batch looked the same as mine. He was worried, didn't know what was happening, acknowledged that this is a serious problem, said that they would immediately change the description on their website to reflect the inferior materials the swords were made of, etc. and that they would discuss this with Cold Steel USA. They did not change anything and kept selling these swords to this day with the same false advertising.
3. Cold Steel USA, after a delay, tried to play this down, with total BS, stating that nickel-silver tarnishes yellow and thus looks like brass, which is not correct at all, and ignored all other mentioned problems with this blade.
4. A Cold Steel moderator in the forum finally appeared and instead of apologizing for a problem which was already admitted in writing by their European representative, tried to distance from them stating that they do not represent them and insulted my character for bringing this up. Seeing that many people were amazed at all this he then deleted the thread.
What became apparent was that CS had produced a whole batch of cheep swords from inferior materials and different alloys, supplied it to their European dealer and hoped to sell them as genuine items. And they still sell them. The replica I received could not cost more than 100$. I collect swords, and have many, cheap and very expensive. Instead they sold this "Emperor O Tanto" for 600$+ and keep selling them. That's it in a nutshell. I have all the post replies in my e-mails but it will be difficult to reconstruct the thread. It was a multi page thread. With just one or two exceptions all posts were very critical to CS for handling this issue the way they did. The thread does exist in some hidden place on the forum, if moved here it would be very informative IMHO.
For those who think that litigation over something like this is a bluff threat, please acquaint yourselves with the EU false advertising and customer protection laws and procedures. With such an obvious case it is very easy to do and costs nothing. It is not like in the US. I could cause a very real problem to their EU dealer but so far I am restraining from doing that, as in fact they were the honest ones and they were just played by Cold Steel USA. But this is beside the point. The point is that Cold Steel are currently selling replica quality swords, got caught both by a customer and by their own EU representative, and instead of being polite and fixing this issue, tried to cover this up. They know the order number and all the details. They acknowledged that they had a batch of replicas. Insisting that a replica sword (admitted by them) is returned to them is ridiculous. If they had a genuine Emperor O Tanto they could just have sent one. They obviously do not have one in Europe, as stated by their EU dealer. That's it.
Here is just one picture of the problem from my opening post. As you can see, even the mold used to make the Tsuba is different, not to mention everything else:
P.S. If a moderator sees fit to split this post as a standalone thread, please do so. I really think this issue should be known.
1. Cold Steel, through their European website http://cold-steel.de sent a replica Emperor O Tanto sword instead of a genuine one to a dear friend, who unknowingly gave it to me as a birthday present. I was pretty amazed upon inspecting it and decided to inquire further. The sword had brass parts, burred edge and many problems.
2. After contacting Cold Steel Europe, their representative Dirk Brüggendick (a very nice and honest guy, BTW) admitted in an e-mail that the sword is indeed different from Cold Steel's advertising, said they would replace it, but could not, since after he checked it turned out that ALL the swords they had from this batch looked the same as mine. He was worried, didn't know what was happening, acknowledged that this is a serious problem, said that they would immediately change the description on their website to reflect the inferior materials the swords were made of, etc. and that they would discuss this with Cold Steel USA. They did not change anything and kept selling these swords to this day with the same false advertising.
3. Cold Steel USA, after a delay, tried to play this down, with total BS, stating that nickel-silver tarnishes yellow and thus looks like brass, which is not correct at all, and ignored all other mentioned problems with this blade.
4. A Cold Steel moderator in the forum finally appeared and instead of apologizing for a problem which was already admitted in writing by their European representative, tried to distance from them stating that they do not represent them and insulted my character for bringing this up. Seeing that many people were amazed at all this he then deleted the thread.
What became apparent was that CS had produced a whole batch of cheep swords from inferior materials and different alloys, supplied it to their European dealer and hoped to sell them as genuine items. And they still sell them. The replica I received could not cost more than 100$. I collect swords, and have many, cheap and very expensive. Instead they sold this "Emperor O Tanto" for 600$+ and keep selling them. That's it in a nutshell. I have all the post replies in my e-mails but it will be difficult to reconstruct the thread. It was a multi page thread. With just one or two exceptions all posts were very critical to CS for handling this issue the way they did. The thread does exist in some hidden place on the forum, if moved here it would be very informative IMHO.
For those who think that litigation over something like this is a bluff threat, please acquaint yourselves with the EU false advertising and customer protection laws and procedures. With such an obvious case it is very easy to do and costs nothing. It is not like in the US. I could cause a very real problem to their EU dealer but so far I am restraining from doing that, as in fact they were the honest ones and they were just played by Cold Steel USA. But this is beside the point. The point is that Cold Steel are currently selling replica quality swords, got caught both by a customer and by their own EU representative, and instead of being polite and fixing this issue, tried to cover this up. They know the order number and all the details. They acknowledged that they had a batch of replicas. Insisting that a replica sword (admitted by them) is returned to them is ridiculous. If they had a genuine Emperor O Tanto they could just have sent one. They obviously do not have one in Europe, as stated by their EU dealer. That's it.
Here is just one picture of the problem from my opening post. As you can see, even the mold used to make the Tsuba is different, not to mention everything else:
P.S. If a moderator sees fit to split this post as a standalone thread, please do so. I really think this issue should be known.
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I hate to tell you this but in terms of the law they are the genuine item.
They may not meet your standard of what you should have received but they are not fakes. They were produced by the genuine manufacturer and supplied by them, to an authorised dealer.
These do not qualify as fakes.
While I agree that the item received does not match the company promotional material in fit and finish your only complaint can be one of poor quality, not provenance.
If I were you I would return the item, arrange a refund with the local dealer, and spend your money with another vendor.
As for them closing your thread in their manufacturers forum........are you really surprised? No manufacturer wants that sort of thread running if they can help it.
Don't get me wrong I'm not saying it's right. I'm just pointing out what it is.
- Joined
- Apr 11, 2016
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- 22,358
There was indeed more to it. @Cold Steel Knives replied with a summary of events (and in their opinion the ball was in OP's court and they hadn't heard anything further), and questioned the character of someone who would threaten a lawsuit over this. That last part probably wasn't the best idea.
And just to be clear why wasn't this returned for refund? Because it's the principal?
Cold Steel isn't in Europe so they can thumb their nose at most of those regulations while a "lawyer" can get rich quick and maybe buy a new boat.
Seems like the distributor has walked away from this also. This is what we've got; take it or leave it is the normal gig.
Cold Steel isn't in Europe so they can thumb their nose at most of those regulations while a "lawyer" can get rich quick and maybe buy a new boat.
Seems like the distributor has walked away from this also. This is what we've got; take it or leave it is the normal gig.
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- May 9, 2002
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- 12,667
Absolutely no dog in this fight, but the OP stated that the sword was a gift from a dear friend. Now, we can debate how circular this argument can be as CS of Germany cannot send the sword advertised as they dont have it in stock. OP obviously doesn't want the incorrect sword again and does not want a refund (which would have to go through his friend and not the OP) as it is considered a thoughtful gift. However, if the whole situation is so sour, would the correct sword actually make the OP feel "whole" and would the nice gesture of the gift continued to be appreciated with the baggage attached to it? So what would really be the best way to end the situation?
It may be best to settle and cut ties in terms of resolution. Litigating the situation on the principle is up to the OP in how much of a windmill they are willing to tilt at. I dont see it going anywhere short of going after the guy he said was polite and as helpful as he could be. How the thread was handled, it was handled. I dont mind going toe to toe with someone on an individual debate as to what has good or bad optics, but Im not going to weigh in on company policy between a manufacturer and BFC.
I am only speculating here but I"m going to guess the buyer at the distributor knew what they were ordering.
It's likely they just never updated their online page.
You can kinda see how neither that dealer or CS has fully thrown their partner in this under the bus yet.
I could be wrong but my common sense is tingling pretty hard.
It's likely they just never updated their online page.
You can kinda see how neither that dealer or CS has fully thrown their partner in this under the bus yet.
I could be wrong but my common sense is tingling pretty hard.
true. ive posted negative, at the minimum not positive, things ive run into on the brand and wasn't banned, deleted or threatened, etc.C'mon, that's a gross exaggeration...they deleted one thread, which was murky at best.
I didnt see this thread so cant comment on it and won't try. y'all know way better on it.......
- Joined
- Jul 30, 2006
- Messages
- 42,979
Not true.
You did not buy from Cold Steel, nor from a subsidiary. You purchased from a distributor, AKA, a dealer. You were told that by Cold Steel and you ignored it.
From the web site:
https://www.cold-steel.de/About-us:_:57.html?MODsid6=a9d762f2e47e5644ad78574a22b81308
About us
We are an official Distributor for all Cold Steel
products for Europe and Germany.
Further, you were offered a refund.
You were offered a refund. You refused it. I'm not sure what further recompense you want.
Now, I don't agree with removing threads from public view. However, I'm not certain what I would have done myself if I were in the position of having offered a refund, had the buyer refuse to take it, and had the buyer just sit and whine about it.
An "official Distributor for all Cold Steel products for Europe and Germany." is the representative of the company in the EU. This is not a dealer, all dealers go through the official distributor.
I did not accept the refund offer because I did not create the thread in order to get a refund, nor to whine, but to find what was going on and to make people aware that currently the Cold Steel "Emperor O Tantos" sold in Europe through Cold Steel's official channels were replica quality and do not conform to their advertising and description. This is something which genuinely surprised me and I do not want to see other people buying a 600$+ sword and getting deceived. My intent was to basically expose obvious fraud. I am sure that there is not one single person on this forum, including the CS mod who deleted the thread, who would want to pay for a premium blade and receive a cheap replica quality sword in the post.
I understand that Cold Steel has it's fans, and they do make some fine knives and have a long history, but a line has to be drawn when a company starts cheating it's customers. They did not apologize, they did not change their advertising as they promised to do, they keep on selling the same swords with premium price and incorrect description. This all is a fact they themselves admitted and not a matter of opinion. People should know, it is as simple as that.