Define hARD TO sHARPEN

When I sharpened some knives with AUS8 and G10 blades, I didn't think of them as hard to sharpen. It just took more patience on my part.
 
Phydeaux said:
When I sharpened some knives with AUS8 and G10 blades, I didn't think of them as hard to sharpen. It just took more patience on my part.
Click to expand...

Did you mean VG-10? G-10 is exceptionally easy to work, but it does not hold an edge well.

picture.php
 
I've been reading this thread, pondering what the answer is (for me) to the OP's question. Just about 3 years or so ago, my answer would've fell in line with what others here have said, to the effect of:

"I don't have the knowledge or skill, and I don't even know IF have the right tools." :(

I'm really struck by how much my perception has changed in that short time, due almost entirely to all I've learned here. I at least feel like I have the knowledge now, which makes selecting the right tools much easier. And my skills have much improved, and will (hopefully) continue to do so. Sharpening doesn't seem anywhere near as hard, anymore.

Thanks to all here, who've helped me change my perception. :)
 
Good catch Unit! I stand corrected. My fingers don't always type quite right, but they usually stay out of the way of the blades.....

Ric
 
Something I have been thinking of, if you need better tools for a particular knife, than the ones that work for your other knives, wouldn't you say that that knife that needs the better tools, is harder to sharpen?
 
i dunno,think of it more like ...would i use a flathead screwdriver that fits in a philips head slot,or should i use my philips head screw driver ,not one of these is better than the other,just better for the task
 
singularity35 said:
Something I have been thinking of, if you need better tools for a particular knife, than the ones that work for your other knives, wouldn't you say that that knife that needs the better tools, is harder to sharpen?
Click to expand...

If you can not loosen a tight bolt because it is metric and you only have standard wrenches, would you say it is harder to loosen?

Conversely, if you have a knife of super resistant steel and someone breaks into your home and steals everything you own except your ceramic hones...is that knife now harder to sharpen?

I am not trying to be an ass here (and Chuck knows this I hope), but what I am illustrating here is our perception changes...the sharpening process is a simple one and it never changes. Quite simply, you grind away material on two surfaces that are angled toward one another, when they intersect, the knife is "sharp".

How resistant those surfaces are to being ground dictates the tools and time required to perform the function, but the process and principles do not change. A knife (a single example) may seem hard to sharpen...but over time and trials, a person can figure out how to accomplish the task. Generally after they figure out the "trick" they will say, "it was only hard until I figured out how to do it". The knife did not get easier to sharpen, they got better at sharpening it.

David said it best!
 
good reading,good points, ....define super resistant steel...just kidding, we all know super resistant steel is the one that's ...wait for it...HARD TO SHARPEN ha ha ha (sorry, i couldn`t resist)
 
Last edited:
not harder to sharpen, longer to grind the same amount of metal with the same abrasive.

again for me a steel that's "hard", "difficult" to sharpen is one i struggle to get a clean crisp edge on. not one that takes longer to grind because even if i don't have coarser abrasives, it just takes more time and patience not more skill, thus not harder to sharpen, imho.

but here we are playing with words more than disscussing technique, and english isn't my main langage so i may be wrong in a way ...
 
unit said:
If you can not loosen a tight bolt because it is metric and you only have standard wrenches, would you say it is harder to loosen?

Conversely, if you have a knife of super resistant steel and someone breaks into your home and steals everything you own except your ceramic hones...is that knife now harder to sharpen?

I am not trying to be an ass here (and Chuck knows this I hope), but what I am illustrating here is our perception changes...the sharpening process is a simple one and it never changes. Quite simply, you grind away material on two surfaces that are angled toward one another, when they intersect, the knife is "sharp".

How resistant those surfaces are to being ground dictates the tools and time required to perform the function, but the process and principles do not change. A knife (a single example) may seem hard to sharpen...but over time and trials, a person can figure out how to accomplish the task. Generally after they figure out the "trick" they will say, "it was only hard until I figured out how to do it". The knife did not get easier to sharpen, they got better at sharpening it.

David said it best!
Click to expand...


You always bring up good points Ken, that's why I always enjoy reading your posts.

Okay, so let me just bring up knifemaking. I read that REX 121 is really hard to work with. A knifemaker here said that he wore out a lot of belts on that metal for stock removal and he's not making any more knives from that metal because of the difficulty of working with it.

Would that knife be as easy to sharpen as say, a Schempp rock? Let's also assume that a person has only a belt sander as a sharpening tool. Would you not equate more effort and more wear on equipment as "harder"? Which one would take less time to sharpen? Would it not be a fair conclusion to say that a knife that takes less effort to sharpen is "easier" to sharpen precisely because it takes less effort and time?

Are we in this context just equating "hard to sharpen" with technique? Or are we also taking time and effort needed into the "hard to sharpen" equation?
 
Last edited:
On my screen at work, Northern Tool ad showed up. The work sharp system was shown for under $70.00, free shipping. I called Hendry @ Northern and ordered one.6-30-11. I'll SEA how well it works 4 me,Massachusetts lottery winning ticket, paid 4 it.
 
stock removal is done prior to heat treat, tempering, etc , isnt it, i dont know, im asking

do you think 10 20 or 30 years from now knife sharpening techniques are going to change.have they changed in the last 10 20 30 years , if there would be some kind of change in technique (i kinda doubt it, but you never know), in some way, shape or form , it would only be ultimately to get the same result, a sharp knife, same with tools , although you do see a lot of red herrings and white elephants,so to answer your question, .... its ?
 
Last edited:
pwet....the applications of time and patience are skills mon ami, probably the key to knife sharpening imho
 
Definition of hard to sharpen a knife: Is the process that takes longer time than expected by the sharpener and probably produces a less sharp edge than expected.The later may or may not be.

Three factors that contribute to the easability or dificulty besides the skills of the sharpener and the tools:

a) Rocwell hardnes of the steel. It is obvious that steel in 56 RC is easier to sharpen than the same steel in lets say 62 RC. Ofcourse other things being equal

b)Type of steel and abrasion resistance. It is much more dificult to sharpen S60V than plain carbon steel. Other things being equal as well

c)Edge geometry. Its easier to sharpen a straight rasor than an axe just because there is a huge diference in material behind the edge. I'm stating the extremes just to make my point more clear. Again other things being equal.

I also have to state that a skilled knife sharpener with inferior equipment will sharpen a knife adequately.
An unskilled sharpener with all the high end equipment will probably ruin some edges before manage something good

Thanks
MFD
 
madfordiving said:
Definition of hard to sharpen a knife: Is the process that takes longer time than expected by the sharpener and probably produces a less sharp edge than expected.The later may or may not be.

Three factors that contribute to the easability or dificulty besides the skills of the sharpener and the tools:

a) Rocwell hardnes of the steel. It is obvious that steel in 56 RC is easier to sharpen than the same steel in lets say 62 RC. Ofcourse other things being equal

b)Type of steel and abrasion resistance. It is much more dificult to sharpen S60V than plain carbon steel. Other things being equal as well

c)Edge geometry. Its easier to sharpen a straight rasor than an axe just because there is a huge diference in material behind the edge. I'm stating the extremes just to make my point more clear. Again other things being equal.

I also have to state that a skilled knife sharpener with inferior equipment will sharpen a knife adequately.
An unskilled sharpener with all the high end equipment will probably ruin some edges before manage something good

Thanks
MFD
Click to expand...

This sounds good to me, but I think when you look at the duration that it takes to sharpen something you'll run into the same kind of debate. For example, if you were using a belt grinder, would CPM 3V take "longer" to sharpen than 440A? What if you turned the RPM on the belt up? You could also look at, "Which will be faster between SiC and diamond abrasives" and look at the whole bench-stone vs belt grinder equation.

So two more factors I think should come into play is the type of abrasive, and the mechanics of the abrasion itself, and that once again opens up the whole "right tool for the right job" argument. So if a user says, "This knife is very hard to sharpen," what they could really mean is, "This knife is very hard to sharpen on anything but diamond abrasives or a belt sander."
 
KennyB said:
This sounds good to me, but I think when you look at the duration that it takes to sharpen something you'll run into the same kind of debate. For example, if you were using a belt grinder, would CPM 3V take "longer" to sharpen than 440A? What if you turned the RPM on the belt up? You could also look at, "Which will be faster between SiC and diamond abrasives" and look at the whole bench-stone vs belt grinder equation.

So two more factors I think should come into play is the type of abrasive, and the mechanics of the abrasion itself, and that once again opens up the whole "right tool for the right job" argument. So if a user says, "This knife is very hard to sharpen," what they could really mean is, "This knife is very hard to sharpen on anything but diamond abrasives or a belt sander."
Click to expand...

There's a phrase that MFD uses, "all things being equal".
 
Hard to sharpen and how much time it takes IMO is irrelevant, I can sharpen a knife in 10 minutes or I can span it out over several days spending a hour or two each day to make sure each grit has carefully been used and the uniformity of the edge is nothing less than perfect.

Hard to sharpen?
A steel you have Zero experience with.
A complex blade grind, like the strider above.
Improper tools.

Some other factors like your mood and what you ate or drank prior to sharpening can often have drastic effects on your coordination.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top