Define hARD TO sHARPEN

[KennyB]

There's a phrase that MFD uses, "all things being equal".

Yeah, I saw that... I think maybe my point is being missed...

Unless the definition only pertained to one type of sharpening media at a time ( for example, "this is hard to sharpen on Arkansas" ), then to make "time" a way to define "hard to sharpen" you must also pay attention to the fact that with different abrasives and different ways to use those abrasives, comes radically different time scales people are working with. Just saying "All things equal", really doesn't apply because a lot of the time ( most of the time ) things aren't equal.

I mean, if the whole thing is trying to determine what people mean by a steel being hard to sharpen, what are you to think when someone using a powered wheel system says it's "hard to sharpen"? They might not be talking about time at all, and then on top of that, if they were comparing relative times between two steels, what if there wasn't as much of a time difference on a powered sharpening setup as with manual setups?

So I think if you're going to say something like, "...S30V is hard to sharpen..." and expect the variable of time to be interpreted, you also need to define which abrasive type it was you were working with for the right interpretation to be made.

 

[canadian1]

semantics=The word "semantics" itself denotes a range of ideas, from the popular to the highly technical. It is often used in ordinary language to denote a problem of understanding that comes down to word selection or connotation. This problem of understanding has been the subject of many formal inquiries, over a long period of time, most notably in the field of formal semantics.

 

[canadian1]

great stuff, thanks one and all,i am kinda searching the forum at the moment, for something i read but cant find it again ...about why spend the extra money on s30v and use its superior quality on a 20 degree angle, its tougher steel optimally suited for a 15 degree etc etc, .....anyone know this article/forum...tnks

 

[Jason B.]

great stuff, thanks one and all,i am kinda searching the forum at the moment, for something i read but cant find it again ...about why spend the extra money on s30v and use its superior quality on a 20 degree angle, its tougher steel optimally suited for a 15 degree etc etc, .....anyone know this article/forum...tnks

Look in the steel faqs sticky.

 

[unit]

I also have to state that a skilled knife sharpener with inferior equipment will sharpen a knife adequately.

This thread is already well steeped in debating over semantics, but what the heck...it is Friday!

I disagree with the above statement in that depending on how one defines "inferior" and "adequately", a skilled knife sharpener CAN put a pretty good edge on a knife with equipment that many on this forum would think woefully inadequate. It is all semantics though...I could also agree with the statement on some level

 

[canadian1]

knives that are hard to sharpen... for me personally are more of a when "i`m not in the mood", mostly because its for a friend, or relative, or friend of a friend, whose leaving on a hunting /camping/fishing trip tomorrow...., that kind of thing, and its 9 o'clock at night... i`ll do it, but its hard,...i`ll do it for free, but usually get something .

 

[Noctis3880]

This thread is already well steeped in debating over semantics, but what the heck...it is Friday!

I disagree with the above statement in that depending on how one defines "inferior" and "adequately", a skilled knife sharpener CAN put a pretty good edge on a knife with equipment that many on this forum would think woefully inadequate. It is all semantics though...I could also agree with the statement on some level

Oh I don't know...
You could argue that one could reprofile S125V on aluminum oxide waterstones, but you would probably use up half the stone in the attempt, as well as 6 hours of your time. Or I could do it in 20 minutes with my WorkSharp:thumbup:. I would take into account "time consuming" before declaring something to be "easy". I personally feel the prospect of sharpening S30V for an hour or two on waterstones is pretty enjoyable, though I wouldn't do it every time.

 

[Ankerson]

This thread is already well steeped in debating over semantics, but what the heck...it is Friday!

I disagree with the above statement in that depending on how one defines "inferior" and "adequately", a skilled knife sharpener CAN put a pretty good edge on a knife with equipment that many on this forum would think woefully inadequate. It is all semantics though...I could also agree with the statement on some level

I wouldn't want to sharpen something like S30V on a typical Arkansas Oil Stone I can tell you that if it was dull..

I tend to like stones that cut faster to cut down the time spent sharpening, but I don't like using diamonds.

 

[canadian1]

respectfully asking,.......what would anyone do to a s30v blade that,it would require that much effort, i can undertand if its a zen type thing for you though .....cheers

 

[me2]

There is no set definition of hard to sharpen. Many times, when that statement is made, not enough information is given to figure out what is meant.

What is usually meant, from what I can gather, is that a knife takes more time to sharpen. This is usually blamed on high hardness/wear resistant steel, and this assumption is sometimes incorrect. I had a Cold Steel push dagger in AUS 8 and it took 3 sessions on a powered, water cooled sharpener to get the edge I wanted. It was all because the edge was very thick and a lot of metal had to be removed.

My definition of more difficult means it requires more skill. Complex blade shapes, matching a new steel to the proper stone, improperly heat treated blades, and steels with floppy burrs that refuse to let go are the only things that give me fits any more. Thick edges, rebeveling, high wear steels (which I don't actually have anymore), and damage all just take time. It's the difference between removing a 1" wood screw and a 4" wood screw. You either resolve to keep going until it's done by hand, or go find some power equipment.

 

[madfordiving]

Yeah, I saw that... I think maybe my point is being missed...

Unless the definition only pertained to one type of sharpening media at a time ( for example, "this is hard to sharpen on Arkansas" ), then to make "time" a way to define "hard to sharpen" you must also pay attention to the fact that with different abrasives and different ways to use those abrasives, comes radically different time scales people are working with. Just saying "All things equal", really doesn't apply because a lot of the time ( most of the time ) things aren't equal.

I mean, if the whole thing is trying to determine what people mean by a steel being hard to sharpen, what are you to think when someone using a powered wheel system says it's "hard to sharpen"? They might not be talking about time at all, and then on top of that, if they were comparing relative times between two steels, what if there wasn't as much of a time difference on a powered sharpening setup as with manual setups?

So I think if you're going to say something like, "...S30V is hard to sharpen..." and expect the variable of time to be interpreted, you also need to define which abrasive type it was you were working with for the right interpretation to be made.

From your statements I understand that you read the post but you didn't take the time to understand
it.
To answer one of the variability problems that you state the average knife user will try some sharpening
systems and will most often conclude to the one that fits him best. Others will experiment.
An other thing is S60 dull sharpened on 220grit diamond stone is easier to do than 1095 dull on
a hard Arkansas. This is very true but is it true that S60 is easier than 1095. Acording to you
that may be but almost every body in this forum knows the real answer and those who don't
should ask Ankerson.