Definition of a Custom Knifemaker?

Question if a maker buys steel and doesn't really make their own (Im talking about using ore, etc) then you aren't really a custom knife maker are you???? After all you are merely taking a pre-fabricated billet, using non-hand held machines (you know, grinders, trip hammers, etc.) to produce knives that are for the most part utilizing previous designs (some call that stealing others call it imitation, still others call it inspiration).

What I have always found interesting is that all the factories know what a custom knife is....which is why they do their best to cut deals with the makers who produce them.

Kevin,

You seem to be looking for information to "hedge" your bets. Nothing wrong with that.

Maker's come and go. Maker's get hot and cold.

Remember, according to the majority of the collectors on this forum. Custom knives are horrible investments.

Consequently, the questions you ask are moot. You should only buy knives you like. Resale consequences be damned.

Then again, if a recession is coming as some economists are now predicting. You will see some change their mind in their thinking.

If you have a question whether a knife is a custom knife or not...email me.


Les Robertson
Buying and Selling Custom Knives for 24 years!
Custom Knife Entrepreneur
www.robertsoncustomcutlery.com
 
I like Mike Snody's post.

Like I've said before, the cream always rises to the top. Or some such nonsense ;)

There's a handful of guys where I work that are known there as knifemakers. MUCH more so than me :) I doubt any of you know them or ever will... And I also doubt them being knifemakers is going to take away from me being one. ;)
 
Snody said:
Anyone who builds a knife is a knifemaker.

Thats just the way it is.

Every one that drives a car is a driver.

Richard Petty is a driver too.

We all know the difference.

Same thing with the "Knifemakers" we all know the difference.
Click to expand...

Exactly so.

Roger
 
Phillip Patton said:
Technically, in my opinion, yes. :D But I think the OP is asking what makes a knifemaker, so this line of conversation is getting off topic.
So I'll leave you with this:

Websters defines "custom" as:

That's the definition I'm going by.
Click to expand...

By that defination, if you leave any of the details of the knife to the maker, trusting in his artistry and experience, you have "defiled" the knife and it is no longer truly "custom":D Another way of putting this is that, according to this definition and one or two others stated in this thread, most Bob Loveless pieces are not custom knives.
 
Snody said:
Anyone who builds a knife is a knifemaker.

Thats just the way it is.

Every one that drives a car is a driver.

Richard Petty is a driver too.

We all know the difference.

Same thing with the "Knifemakers" we all know the difference.
Click to expand...

RogerP said:
Exactly so.

Roger
Click to expand...

So Roger, you made a knife. Do you consider yourself a knifemaker, or are you just a savvy collector? ;) :)
 
Hi Kevin,

No, I don't think of myself as a knifemaker - I haven't come anywhere close to 6 or 7 knives a year, nor am I likely to. ;)

But I really don't view the term as any kind of "title" conferred on anyone by anyone. It is simply a description. There are no criteria of "legitimacy" - if you make knives, you're a knifemaker. If you've only ever made two knives and have no firm plans to make any more, you're probably not a knifemaker. But even if you claimed to be, you're likely not going to be confused with Fisk. :p

Roger
 
jdm61 said:
By that defination, if you leave any of the details of the knife to the maker, trusting in his artistry and experience, you have "defiled" the knife and it is no longer truly "custom":D
Click to expand...

Also, by that definition there are few if any custom knives on display at any given custom knife show.

Roger
 
RogerP said:
Also, by that definition there are few if any custom knives on display at any given custom knife show.

Roger
Click to expand...

That's also probably why they don't call your local "Gun Show" a "Custom Gun
Show"!
Because it's NOT.
Knife Shows should just be called "Knife Shows".
 
Karl,

How many hundreds of knife makers do you think had and utilized the same ideas hundreds of years ago that you are using today?

Ok, lets take this to it's ultimate conclusion. Knives were man's first tool. Those flint knapped blades, hawks, spear and arrow points! Now those were "custom" knives. Then the guy who figured it out showed it to another member of the tribe. Everything since then has been an interpretation of the original(s).


Roger,

Sorry, you are a custom knife maker. Probably more so than most of the makers on here. As you haven't made a duplicate yet. :D


Les Robertson
Custom Knife Entrepreneur
www.robertsoncustomcutlery.com
 
Karl B. Andersen said:
That's also probably why they don't call your local "Gun Show" a "Custom Gun
Show"!
Because it's NOT.
Knife Shows should just be called "Knife Shows".
Click to expand...

I don't know that there is an equivalence in terms for guns and knives. In the knife world, custom generally distinguishes knives made by a single artisan from factory knives. I suspect that is not how the term is used for guns.

I can tell you one thing - I need to know that there are going to be a bunch of "custom" knives (as I have used the term) at any show before I attend. If it's just a "knife show", I'm not travelling very far to see a room full of Kershaws or what have you.

Roger
 
RogerP said:
Hi Kevin,

No, I don't think of myself as a knifemaker - I haven't come anywhere close to 6 or 7 knives a year, nor am I likely to. ;)

But I really don't view the term as any kind of "title" conferred on anyone by anyone. It is simply a description. There are no criteria of "legitimacy" - if you make knives, you're a knifemaker. If you've only ever made two knives and have no firm plans to make any more, you're probably not a knifemaker. But even if you claimed to be, you're likely not going to be confused with Fisk. :p

Roger
Click to expand...

Exactly! Fisk is a Knifemakers Knifemaker.We all know who the hard hitters are. Look at their work, look at their client base, look at the money they demand for their creations .look at the factories paying them tens of thousands of dollars for their designs and then google their name.and see if the "World" recognizes them as a maker. I say show me the money. I don't care if Billy Bob put camel bone on his cousins camilus or Benny the ice cream truck driver just was featured in the knife mag as the Tactical Knife Prodigy. Show me the money. What does the World think of their work?? Is their clientbase Worldwide or is it County wide. Do their knives trade like currency in parts of the world that don't speak English?? What do their knives sell for on ebay?? Half the makers price or twice the makers price?? Show me the Money and I will show you a Real Knifemaker. Seriously anyone who can earn a living building knives has my respect.Look at how many people consider themsleves musicians but there was only one King and he came from Memphis.Nobody is confusing the Roling Stones with the band playing Barry Manilow at the Holiday Inn.Blackberry Posting from the Snody Ranch!
 
suppose the established maker had an apprentice who he had trained to make knives in his style. the cost of the training was he didn't get to keep the knives he made, or profit from their sale.

I talked to such a man, two weeks ago who trained under an older slipjoint maker. the younger man worked as his apprentice, did most of the work, apart from final finish by the "pro". this went on for a time, eventually this man became dissatisfied with the financial end, and quit.

..this kind of thing happens in a lot of traditional crafts, family business.
 
to paraphrase Steven King "if you sell the work youve done, the check clears, and you pay the light bill with it, your a professional "
 
Amen, Amen, Amen

Having a knife made for me using particular specs and requirements, that knife was "custom" made for me and I call it custom. Buying a knife that a man (or woman) made with thier own stills, is a handmade unless it was made for someone else that failed to complete the purchase, then it could be a handmade custom knife. We could go on all day.

Obtaining a particular knife with that "feel" that "fit & finish" with that desired usefullness, edge holding, and proud to own is what most of use seek.

There are production knives, there are handmade knives.
There is stock removal and forged.
People do their own heat treat and some farm it out. Etc, etc, etc...

If a person can take material and do what it takes to make a knife, they are a knifemaker. If that person can make a well made edge holding, cutting instrument that performs above what you can buy in a store, then he/she is a good knifemaker. If they can repeat that, then they are a level above. If they can match up a customer's requests with materials and still and produce a fine piece that will become a family heirloom or retain or increase in valve, then they are even better yet. If they make only what they want to make and still produce a knock-out piece that makes you say, "Wow" then they are another catergory. If they can produce a style or design that becomes a standard or icon in the industry then this person has reached a level that few have obtained.

We don't need definitions, we need more knives, more creations, so we will have something else to discuss on the internet. So all you knifemakers, make more please.

By the way, I do believe the "King" was from TUPELO, Not Memphis. He just had a house in Memphis cause the one he wanted in Tupelo, the owners wouldn't sell. Then someone took all the money he donated for a guitar shaped swimming pool, so no pool got built. He liked knives though.
 
I like words, and I strive to have sufficient command of language such that I can select the most appropriate words to express myself. The body of words used uniquely in a given field such as knives is called a lexicon. A fully developed lexicon is a sign of passion and literacy, and helps enrich the experience of participants.

We could use "this thingy" or "that thingy" to describe a choil or a swedge, but that would be awkward and degrading. To say that Richard Petty is a just driver like me is really is equally deficient and colorless. In my obituary there will be no mention that I was a driver because to say that would have as much descriptive power as saying that I was human. But you better believe that Petty's obit will chronicle every stage of his rise to NASCAR status, retirement, and election to the Hall of Fame. Does the distinction between the two of us and the cars we drove matter? If you love car racing the distinction is everything. If not, who cares.

Distinctions in categories of makers is important in the knife world. ALL makers who make handmade knives are custom makers. I could be wrong, but it seems to me there are 3 classes of custom makers: (1) the generic maker who takes orders and will build just about anything you are willing to pay for; (2) the selective maker who takes orders but sticks pretty much to the his model line; (3) the speculator who does not take orders and builds what he wishes and sells anyway he wishes. Other distinctions are: (1) hobbyist (part time) or pros (full time); (2) stock removers or forgers; and (3) folders or fixed blade. The quantity or quality of knives made have no direct bearing on categorizing makers.

The avid collector knows these categories by heart and does not need to spell them out because they make it their business to know the select makers from whom they purchase their knives. The neophytes and prospective knife nuts would find a diagram of maker categories and definitions interesting and instructive I think.

Lastly, that we use terms that connote distinctions like bowies, fighters, choppers, camp knives but have have absolutely no coherent meaning is pure lunacy. I know the language is rich enough to do it; the question is when will the protagonists do it or will they be content to use descriptor words with no meaning always. Just assemble a panel of experts and makers and arbitrarily set the parameters. Of course there would be outrage, but eventually the protesters will croak, the terms will canonize, and the new blood will follow like popcorn on a string. Maybe ABS could do it.

Ken
 
RogerP said:
I can tell you one thing - I need to know that there are going to be a bunch of "custom" knives (as I have used the term) at any show before I attend. If it's just a "knife show", I'm not travelling very far to see a room full of Kershaws or what have you.

Roger
Click to expand...

That's just the difference be "factory" and "Hand made".
As makers we make "spec" knives and we make "Custom Knives".
We make all kinds of knives.
I spent 30 years in the home building industry. There was no confusion between a "Spec" home and a "Custom Home". A "Custmom" home was when the customer, the supplier, the archtect and the builder got together and built a home according to the customer's specifications.
You can get a "custom" paint job done on your Harley.
You can get a "custom" gun built.
You can have a pair of handmade "Custom" cowboy boots fit to your feet.
Why is it that this industry has a difficulty with a common English word?
I would suggest that if anyone had difficulty with that word to simply pull out your dictionary and look it up! My World Book says, "made specially for individual customers; made to order."
No more complex than that.
Custom does not mean that you have just done something creative.
I feel so honored to be amongst such a specialized and esteemed group of individuals/makers/collectors/enthusiasts.
I could go down the entire list and feel humbled.
Roger, Kevin, Les, Murray, etc., etc.
Now, you guys, ARE "CUSTOM COLLECTORS"! You choose each and every knife and the maker and decide how you go about the business end of the transaction and how it is accomplished, etc.
I will be proud when I can make YOU each your own "CUSTOM KNIFE"!
Until then, maybe someday you'll see one of my "spec" knives that you like.
I have made countless "Custom" knives. It is somewhat of a challenge, and is rather restrictive, to be honest. As a knife artisan, I prefer the freedom of making what I designed laying in the bathtub one night.
You bet, it's Man's oldest tool. Certainly no dispute there. I don't think that's in question here at all. Hardly anything we do can be said to be a new idea. That even further removes it from the "Custom" category!
I'm proud to make Man's oldest tool, and hope they serve my clients well.
There's a Hall of Fame-er who once said "We're in the knife handle business".
Just about all the blades are the same, with only a few differences here and there.
You guys are a great bunch of guys and I'm proud to have my name on the same page.
Here's to the Knife Business.
 
Snody said:
..............Nobody is confusing the Roling Stones with the band playing Barry Manilow at the Holiday Inn.Blackberry Posting from the Snody Ranch!
Click to expand...

I'll bet you are the first person to mention Barry Manilow in a knife thread!
My hat is off to you!
 
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