Definition of a Custom Knifemaker?

Another log on the fire:

I looked again at a couple of my dictionaries, which, of course, give us the definitions of words as they have been put down and accepted.
In "custom", and I quote, "made specially for individual customers; made to order; not ready-made."
Then, the key here is "not ready-made"!
So, "ready-made" and I quote, "ready for immediate use; made for anybody who will buy; not made to order".
In reference to my post above, that is why I am a "Professional Knifemaker". I DO custom work - absolutely. I also do a lot of ready-made knife work, but I am MORE than a Custom Knifemaker - I not only do custom work to satisfy customer needs/wants, but I am a knife designer/artisan/crafter/maker/etc.
Custom falls UNDER Professional.
It's a larger umbrella.
 
I was perusing some pictures from the Gembloux and SICAC shows and I noticed that the French speaking makers have come up with a elegant solution for this confusing little issue. The refer to themselves as "artisan couteliers" Now I know that "artisan" is also used in the good old USA by unrepentant ex-hippie bakers that make bread from 17 1/2 types of grain normally only considered suitable for animal feed or dove bait in Zimbabwe, but I figured it is a good generic term that avoids the whole "custom" problem :D
 
The word 'Custom' in the 'Custom Knife World' is going to be very hard to change and I really see no point.

One way to look at it is, I make one of a kind 'custom' knives to either my own specs or my customer's. Either way it's still custom made, but this can be beat to death :)

The definition of the word custom has little to do with Kevin's original question.
 
Don Hanson III said:
The word 'Custom' in the 'Custom Knife World' is going to be very hard to change and I really see no point.

One way to look at it is, I make one of a kind 'custom' knives to either my own specs or my customer's. Either way it's still custom made, but this can be beat to death :)
Click to expand...

There you go again, making all kinds of sense. ;)

Roger
 
MTF3, Kevin, Nick, and Coop

Early on Coop warmed me that this was shark tank, and to get 4 kudos in one thread has me at my desk penning my memoirs. Thanks.

Roger

Your line "I'll know it (a bowie) when I see it" always bemuses. My question to you is how would you answer my knife-illiterate son's query to you about the definition of a bowie? Say what? If you can't define a bowie objectively then the meaning is reduced to romantic mysticism, which rather stuns me that an attorney like yourself, who lives and dies in a world of words with meanings and brittle definitions, rules, and protocols could be found, if just in a hobby, in the fog of meta-physics. Balance, of course, could explain your double life, which is a good thing, and I might even cede the point, except that I'm convinced that objectivity is better, not for the individual knife lover maybe, but for Knifedom in general. Who among us lovers of knives can forget the clarion call for self-denial by James Bowie himself (or was it Steven Garson) with these immortal words, "Ask not what Knifedom can do for you, but . . . "

Your assertion that a bowie definition would stifle bowie diversity and creativity belies your rank in the Canadian intelligentsia. The exact opposite would result because the futility in trying to fit the bewildering array of "bowies" into one box (which is precisely why no one can define a bowie today) would promptly lead to a prodigious list that when defined, named, and sanctioned would detonate a delirious revival in Knifedom.

Given the fierce independence of artisan makers not wont to work within the bounds of definitions I can even see the emergence of a new (protest) bowie, which would cleverly and defiantly skirt all official rules and regs. But not to be outsmarted by these buccaneers, I would not outlaw them (and we'll know them when we see them), just toss them into the illegitimate (or better yet bastard) bowie category, where they would burn hotter than a case of Prohibition whiskey, because everybody would lust for one of these naughty bowies.

Stifling? I think not. I can almost smell the ozone in the air from all the electricity. This might be the impetus for young Nick to shuck his daytime job, where he squanders his gift, for full time in the shop. And I can see Don (Hanson) deep in the underground catacombs of his ivory treasury flipping endless slabs for that drop-dead beautiful set that will assure him winning the coveted BBBB (Best Bastard Bowie at Blade). New specialists will emerge adept at bastardizing pre-2008 bowies, adding value and prestige to their owners. Can you imagine the consternation on Coop's face upon surrendering his beloved Hill Pearce bowies for such a facelift?

Being the avant-garde bowie collector you are, Roger, my money is on you becoming the first grand slam (collecting all 12 species of bowie by at least 10 different makers) bowie collector following official sanctioning by the WBA (World Blade Association). This, of course, will reserve for you a spot as a pantheon if not Promethean himself.

The bowie revolution would benefit more than makers and collectors. Knife shows would require tickets and be booked-up like the Superbowl, replete with scalpers lurking outside. Entrepreneurs, like Les, would strike it rich and he would likely do his BF posting from the French Riviera in summer and his own South Sea Island in the winter. New recruits, clutching wads of money in both fists, would stampede into Knifedom like 16th century bison fleeing Dakota wildfire.

Roger, you need to come in out of that arctic freeze up there, snuggle up to a roaring fire and a steaming cup of coffee, and warm up to the future.

Ken
 
Ken,
You are a wizard of the written word! If you are not a writer by trade, from what i've seen, you could be. It is a pleasure to read your posts.

Peter
 
Ken,
You say many things!


i wholeheartedly agree. Except about the one thing.. which is conjecture, and pulp filth.

Verily, i smell the stinch of it in my nostrils, reading these profundities, i have to look away.

<your humble "tumerous, parasite" servant. >
ex-love club member
 
Don Hanson III said:
The word 'Custom' in the 'Custom Knife World' is going to be very hard to change and I really see no point.

One way to look at it is, I make one of a kind 'custom' knives to either my own specs or my customer's. Either way it's still custom made, but this can be beat to death :)

The definition of the word custom has little to do with Kevin's original question.
Click to expand...
Thanks, Don!
That was Good!
As well, on another forum some months ago, there was a thread about coming up with a LOGO that would describe our industry and possibly be used across the boards
In reference to this comment "The refer to themselves as "artisan couteliers"
which was in French, I put two words together in Latin - "Cultellus Formator"
which means "Cutlery Former" - knife maker.
 
Ken Williams said:
Roger

Your line "I'll know it (a bowie) when I see it" always bemuses.
Click to expand...

I'm happy you are bemused. I've been told that my posts sometime produce far less pleasant results.

Ken Williams said:
My question to you is how would you answer my knife-illiterate son's query to you about the definition of a bowie?
Click to expand...

I'd happily sit down and explain to the no doubt delightful young chap that not all questions have a neatly-parceled answer. I'd tell him a little bit about Jim Bowie and some the the famous / notorious aspects of his life. I'd explain to him how the legend was born and inspired in a great many the desire to own "a knife like Bowie's". I'd relate that these first "bowie knives" took many shapes indeed, because even though they were made at a time far more proximate to his life, precious few people had actually laid eyes on the knife, which was lost forever in the dust and blood of the Alamo. I'd further relate that then - as now - there was no singular definition which conclusively described the genre - that it was in fact defined by its very diversity and lasting popularity. I think it would be a fine chat.

Ken Williams said:
Balance, of course, could explain your double life, which is a good thing....
Click to expand...

Can't say I've ever really felt like I was living a double-life, but yep, balance is a good thing. Tell me Ken, has making snap judgments about people based upon their profession proven to be a successful stratagy for you thus far?

Ken Williams said:
Your assertion that a bowie definition would stifle bowie diversity and creativity belies your rank in the Canadian intelligentsia. The exact opposite would result because the futility in trying to fit the bewildering array of "bowies" into one box (which is precisely why no one can define a bowie today) would promptly lead to a prodigious list that when defined, named, and sanctioned would detonate a delirious revival in Knifedom.
Click to expand...

Intelligentsia? You've definitely got me confused with somebody else. You seem to think that a "bewildering array of bowies" is a bad thing. I don't. I think a rigid, limiting, conformist - and let's not forget, arbitrary - definition of the genre would be a bad thing. You are welcome to your view - please don't mistake my presentation of a contrary opinion as indicative of any desire on my part to make you see things my way.

Ken Williams said:
Given the fierce independence of artisan makers not wont to work within the bounds of definitions I can even see the emergence of a new (protest) bowie, which would cleverly and defiantly skirt all official rules and regs. But not to be outsmarted by these buccaneers, I would not outlaw them (and we'll know them when we see them), just toss them into the illegitimate (or better yet bastard) bowie category, where they would burn hotter than a case of Prohibition whiskey, because everybody would lust for one of these naughty bowies.
Click to expand...

Ummmm.... okay.


Ken Williams said:
Roger, you need to come in out of that arctic freeze up there, snuggle up to a roaring fire and a steaming cup of coffee, and warm up to the future.

Ken
Click to expand...

The fire and coffee sound good. Your vision of the future doesn't.

Roger
 
Hi Ken,

You are confused. I don't need to operate from anywhere besides my office at home in Evans Georgia to strike it rich!!

How many people do you know that truly don't work for a living...Ok besides Paris Hilton! :D

For the last 13 years I have made my living by buying and selling custom knives. In addition to the money and fame...LOL I have met a lot of great people and become friends with many of them. To include the great Bowie hunter RogerP. It is exactly because of people like RogerP that I do not consider my job...work.

Like Karl, saying he is much more than a maker. I am much more than a dealer. Hence the term "Custom Knife Entrepreneur".

I am always amused when people fight to prove that they are not a "custom knife maker" in the way that almost everyone views it.

The Term "Custom" Knife was coined in the Mid-1970's by the Knifemaker's Guild. This was done to start a lexicon for their entry into the overall knife market.

Most professions have a lexicon of words used to identify and describe things within that profession. In a profession that includes sales, terms such as "Custom" are created for "Marketing Purposes".

Part of what creates collectors is a shared love of a particular (insert name here).

With regards to custom knives you could not have:

Custom Knives
'Custom" knives
Hand made Knives
Customized Knives
Professional Knives
One-of-a-Kind Knives.

This would do nothing but confuse this issue even more.

Early in the century it was the "semi-production" knives trying to force their way into the market. Specifically Randall and Chris Reeve Knives. An astute observer pointed out on this and other forums that they were not. The argument came to an end when the Sebenza won the "Best Manufactured Knife of the Year" at the Blade Show in 2000. Shortly there after, two members of the Knifemakers Guild informed me that Randall knives, because of the way the knives are made could only qualify for "Associate Membership" at best. Point of Fact Bo Randall was offered that years ago and declined. This according to Guild Officers.

You can call yourself whatever you like. You can call your knives whatever you want to call them.

However, remember the smaller box you put yourself into will require more expense on your part to inform potential buyers of your product. As well claiming to be better than others who produce similar knives merely because you are full time is foolish.

This is coming from someone who has been a full time custom knife dealer longer than anyone out there. Note I said custom. Others have been selling knives longer than I but not exclusively custom knives (in all their construction types and configurations). That being said, if a part time dealer has a knife at a better price than I do, I will not get the sale.

But I have written a book, do seminars, write for the magazines, I'm Full Time and an Entrepreneur...etc. None of this makes a difference if the price is less somewhere else. :D

Ken I spend my days buying knives, selling knives, ordering knives, tracking trends, talking with collectors, makers, editors, writers, and friends.

No, I don't need to go to the Riviera or anywhere else (except shows) to get Rich with custom knives.

Oh BTW, have you been to a major show a few minutes before and after the doors open?? You would think you were at a Rock Concert. People are pushing and shoving to get in. Trying to be first to the table. Quite frankly if the show promoters would offer tickets at double the price to get in 3 minutes earlier. You would have people lined up to buy those tickets.

So maybe scalpers are not that far off.

Les Robertson
Custom Knife Entrepreneur and Knifeaholic!
www.robertsoncustomcutlery.com
 
"However, remember the smaller box you put yourself into will require more expense on your part to inform potential buyers of your product."

Thanks, Les!
That's one of those things that I like to write on my shop wall!
Truer words of knife making wisdom have seldom been put into words.

But it stands right there along with Don's words ".......I make one of a kind 'custom' knives to either my own specs or my customer's. Either way it's still custom made......."

This was a good day.
 
Kevin Jones said:
There’s no doubt many new custom knifemakers coming on to the scene. Some think too many.

So it brings to mind what is a custom knifemaker? Now I’m not speaking in the simplest definition of the word, however when do we (collectors, established makers and dealers) consider a tinkerer or hobbyist a legitimate custom knifemaker. Is it fair for a hobbyist, who makes 6/7 knives a year to sell a knife or two at craft fairs or to his hunting buddies, to share the same title as say a Jerry Fisk or a dedicated part time maker such as Lin Rhea or newer maker hungry for knowledge such as Eric Fritz?

Does it have anything to do with the quantity of knives a maker produces or is it all about the quality of the knife produced?
Or is it as simple as if you are able to sell your knives you are a maker and if not you are a hobbyist?

Do these makers that just dabble in making knives yet, take a slice of the collector dollar pie concern established makers? Even though most of these makers/hobbyist are usually in for the short term, they do take some of the knife buying dollar.

Sometimes these makers/hobbyist fade away leaving collectors with knives with little monetary value? Does this concern collectors.

We no doubt need talented new makers that are willing to invest the time to become the established and successful makers of the future.

Just throwing this up for discussion. Thanks in advance for your opinions and thoughts.
Click to expand...

Allow me to introduce myself. I'm Dave Bowen from Garland Texas. I normally don't frequent this part of the forum, so most of you won't know me.

Let me start by saying I enjoyed reading the thread. I read every post on all 5 pages. I don't know what to call myself, nor am I concerned with titles. I just love making knives.
I forge my own blades, I use raw handle material, some of which I harvest myself, and most of what I do is of my own design. I do sell my knives, but I have only recently gotten more serious about this aspect of knifemaking. I started making knives about 18 years ago, just to give you a time line. I went about 14 years without making a knife, so I have been actually making them only a few years total.

I just spent $1400 on tools, built my forge, and work on my knives every day after work, and on weekends. All of this in my garage. I have taken the time to apprentice with a bladesmith in order to educate myself in the forging/heat treating aspect of knifemaking. I'm 38 years old, and I have so much more to learn, but in my mind, I'm dedicated. Again, what title do I fall under? I don't make my living with knife making, but I do make money. I could spend my spare time doing other things, but I choose to spend it making knives. Now, I'm rambling. Let me get to my point.

I re-read the original post above, and in my opinion, why would Don Fogg, or Jerry Fisk be concerned with me? Whether you consider me a hobbyist, a professional, or whatever, if I can make knives as well as the top names in the industry, and I spend 1 hour a day doing it, does that make me unworthy of the same title? If I make 100 knives a year, sell them all, and make $150 on each knife, does this again deem me unworthy of the title that Fisk carries? I'm a knifemaker regardless. The quality, reputation, etc. is what sets these guys apart from me.

The question was, does the influx of new makers, and hobbyists concern the established makers, dealers, and collectors? Why would it? I am an unknown knifemaker and I'm not even in the same league as these guys. They have no reason to be concerned with me. As I become a better maker, and establish a reputation, and perhaps enter the caliber they are in, they still would have no reason to be concerned. I sell to a completely different market than the high end makers, so I'm really no competition to any of them.

The knife buying dollar is not consistant across the board. I sell to people looking for a $200-$300 user. Not to people looking to drop 3-4k on a Fisk or a Fogg knife. I'm not taking dollars from the high end market, and they aren't taking dollars from mine.

Anyway, Thank you for the great discussion, and I look forward to getting to know you guys better in the coming years.

Dave Bowen
"Maker of knives from start to finish, that aren't factory, and most of which are my own design, and are forged with a hammer and anvil, but some are made for other people, so they are custom...." Man, that's a long title. I'm confused again. :D
 
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