Deposits , what a stinkfest

Bend over buddy, size eleven coming your way :p :D I never ask for anything down unless the customer chooses to do so. I leave payment options totally up to them. They can pay me in full when the knife is ready to ship. I would prefer no money until the knife is done but some people would rather put something down or make payments throughout the process.
Scott
 
O K Mark :p

I don't like deposits or the pressure of holding someones money, when I finish a knife, I want to be paid in full. I've never had any problems doing business this way.

Roger needs to get to a computer and try to clear this up or at lest let people know whats going on. I hope he is alright. These negetive threads in GBU are like a magnet, lots and lots of people read them.
 
Mark Williams said:
If you ever hear of me asking for a deposit. Please come kick my ass .

That is all
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Ill kick you if you kick me. I hate when people want to give me money before I start a knife. It seem as if they think because they put money down they have the right to rush me for there work. I try to stay pretty close to my due dates but really unless you are shipping out or going to need a knife for a job,what the hurry.


cya
jimi
 
Well said. By all.

9 times out of 10 a bad thread is started because of early money being passed.

Coop
 
J.Wade said:
Ill kick you if you kick me. I hate when people want to give me money before I start a knife. It seem as if they think because they put money down they have the right to rush me for there work. I try to stay pretty close to my due dates but really unless you are shipping out or going to need a knife for a job,what the hurry.


cya
jimi
Click to expand...
I know what you mean about that but then again you need to accomadate what's best for the customer. It may be easier for them to pay in increments instead of a wad at the end. Some people forget about the order until it's completed and say sh*t, I've got to come up with such & such amount of money.
Scott
 
I want on the kicking list also! :D
Are we going to set this up as a regional service? I can probably supply any kicks needed within a 100 miles or so. Don't really care where the boot comes from if I need it myself, but I'd like it to show up soon enough that I don't make the mistake more than once.....


I've had several people offer to put money down and I always refuse. I rarely will give a delivery date either. This isn't my fulltime occupation and the time I have to invest in it varies greatly and unexpectedly. Holding someone's money just leads to increased pressure on me, and increased expectations from them.
I want to accomodate the customer as much as possible, but not by putting myself in that kind of business risk. If they want to make payments, they can dole the money out every month and stick it in an envelope. I don't want to see or hear about that envelope until I have the knife done ;)
 
I only require a deposit when the knife being made has something about it that would make it unsaleable if the original customer changed his mind later. But for the most part I don't even do commissions any more.
 
About the only time I'll take a deposit is if I'm doing a show and a customer wants me to hold something for them and pay me in the future. That would be for a customer I don't know either.
 
The dogpile on Roger in GB&U really makes me angry and sad. I've started to post several times but it will accomplish nothing except waste my time.

Most people don't understand this business. They don't understand our interdependencies on vendors, market conditions, etc. They cannot comprehend how a simple equipment failure can affect delivery times. How having lots of orders exponentially increases the chances of a delay.

Some of the examples they give are pathetic. Their ideas are based on their view or reality. One poster wrote, "I would go to Kinkos and pay for computer time." What if the nearest Kinkos is over an hour away? I have nightmares about losing e-mail access. I get about 150 e-mails a day. After going to a show it usually takes me at least a week to catch up. If I were shut down for two weeks I don't know if I could ever catch up.

When I worked in aerospace we had a joke about getting behind. The further behind we were, the more people were assigned to provide status to upper management and our customers, which put us further behind because we did not have the people to do the work. The worst theoretical situation was when we all worked status except one person who worked on the project. If a knifemakers gets behind should he e-mail everyone or keep working? It is a tough decision.

I see the problems getting worse. Our "Immediate Gratification" is teaching us we do not need patience. We can order something and have it shipped overnight. I enjoy waiting for custom knives. The wait enhances the thrill when the knife is delivered. Maybe I'm too old. I still think "Patience Is A Virtue".

I hope someday the assholes who are dogpiling on Roger are put into a similar situation with the roles reversed. I wish I could be there to rub their nose in it. I also would like to know the names of people posting. Anonymity encourages rude behaviour. I think people who post should have their name in their profile. Some forums require names in the profile. I keep a list of people I will never do business with. Some orders are not worth the trouble.
 
Don's got the right idea. Money in full at the time of completion. I don't do business any other way. :thumbup:
 
Looks like washington an oregon is pretty well covered. We'll call that sector 1. Course we may have to all chip in an get Ray a pair of boots....those sandals may not be up to the task :p








And on a more serious note- Well said Chuck!
 
I do understand what you guys are saying...there's certainly great wisdom in it. I also agree that being paid in full in advance makes it lots harder to get the job done. It's a mental block, for sure.


That said, I require a deposit on every custom order (except for long-standing customers). There are certainly times when the "pressure" seems unbearable, but somehow I manage to fall asleep at the end of the day and wake up the next...:rolleyes:

I've heard too many stories about knifemakers that made a knife for so-and-so and when it came time to collect, suddenly funds were depleted, or minds changed, or they fell off the edge the earth....and the maker is stuck with a one-off piece that is harder to sell.

Most of what I do/make is "one-off" stuff...

So, I expect the customer to be as dedicated to this project as I am. We meet halfway by having a deposit. Has very little to do with buying materials. Has everything to do with commitment. If they're truly interested and ready to buy, they'll have the funds available. I've only had a handful of scuffles about the deposit, and most of them were guys that wanted to pay in full upfront and I wouldn't let them.

I'm sure I've probably lost an order or two because of it....but it's worth it to me.

I have a customer who's been waiting on his custom khukuri for over a year. But since we communicate often, we're on the same page, and it's not been a problem.


So, the fault here really isn't about deposits....it's about communication....or rather, when communication breaks down.



Personally, I like the pressure.......motivates me....



FWIW

YMMV
 
The dogpile is exactly what it is......... There are reasons for getting deposits and reasons not to get deposits. There are always 2 sides to the story, and there are also reasons you need to let customers know what you are doing with there project... even if its colecting dust for whatever reason.

I try to live by, do what you say your going to.........and that pretty much fixes the complicated, twisted crap that can come your way.

I have mixed opinions about deposits but Mark getting an ass kicking is an easy decision!!! :thumbup: ;)

In the end, all a man has is his word so it better be a good one.

As far as the dogpile........screw em'.... what goes around sure nuff comes around.
 
To quote Chuck Bybee
"I see the problems getting worse. Our "Immediate Gratification" is teaching us we do not need patience. We can order something and have it shipped overnight. I enjoy waiting for custom knives. The wait enhances the thrill when the knife is delivered. Maybe I'm too old. I still think "Patience Is A Virtue".

and:

"Anonymity encourages rude behaviour. I think people who post should have their name in their profile. Some forums require names in the profile. I keep a list of people I will never do business with. Some orders are not worth the trouble."

Hallelujah!
 
capture1108200413010_pm.jpg


:D
 
haha I do think there is something I like about the name DAN :D

Chuck :thumbup:

I take deposits :D

for the guys that don't do this full time
go full time and get back to me.. :)

Mark stick that butt over here. ;)

( edited to add I know some full timers don't take them :) )...
 
When taking a deposit I think a maker might be better of over stating the length of time it will take to get it made.

There are quite a few people that figure that once they pay a deposit that they should get the knife right on the estimated delivery time. I have always considered an estimated delivery time to be just that, an estimate. Even with a deposit, as long as there is a good reason and communication, I have no problem waiting longer for my knife. Hell, it's a knife, not life or death.

With all the stuff I have been reading lately, I really feel for what knifemakers go through. I just put myself in the knifemakers shoes and treat him the same way I would want to be treated.
 
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