Deposits , what a stinkfest

Hopefully a relevant question for you guys:

Without a deposit, at what point do you ship a knife to a distant customer? When they say they're sending the cheque? When you get it? Or after it clears?

-Allin
 
After you recieve the money order for the full amount.
 
F. Allin Kahrl said:
Hopefully a relevant question for you guys:

Without a deposit, at what point do you ship a knife to a distant customer? When they say they're sending the cheque? When you get it? Or after it clears?

-Allin
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Holl Smokes! I been wondering where you been, boy! How you doing? Everything okay? :)
 
jhiggins said:
How you doing? Everything okay? :)
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I'm doing fine, and thanks for asking. Got a "promotion" of sorts over the summer and work's kept me busy. I haven't been in the shop for a while and haven't checked in here. Sorry. :(

BUT my lady just took off for a 6 month job in Milwaukee and I've resolved to get some serious work done while she's gone in the hopes that I can look at something more like fulltiming when she gets back. :rolleyes:

We'll see.
 
F. Allin Kahrl said:
Hopefully a relevant question for you guys:

Without a deposit, at what point do you ship a knife to a distant customer? When they say they're sending the cheque? When you get it? Or after it clears?

-Allin
Click to expand...

I ship after full payment by Credit card.
if paid by Check or money order, after they Clear. (if it's a first time customer)
you get a feel for the customer also by talking with them, you can get a trust from that, so it's a play be ear too.

money orders and Casher's checks do bounce also.
I have two in front of me right now to remind me of that..
one for $4,800.00 and one for $11,600.00 and they look real with the water marks and all. so there are bad customers out there.

I take a deposit mainly because I am so far behind in orders.
and I feel for the customers time,, if I work a week on a knife and he
then after it's done, I can't contact him, then he has wasted time for the next guy on the list, sure I can sell it but that don't help the guys on my list.


the idea of padding time to make sure the jobs get done on time is a great one but in real time in the full time making, it's still a hard thing to figure when you get a year out.. you can make too much time and stiff yourself of jobs,, and no maker wants to refuse jobs.. it's a catch 22 if you've been doing it long enough to see it..but this in just my situation..I'm not sure how the rest of the full timers end up.
, it's very easy to want to just sell a knife when one is done
but most makers can't do that on demand, and with slow times hear and there, a backed up log evens the work load out to get through the slow times. I don't know about the others but I need work every week of the
year, so a back log has to be in place. and the deposits are just a fact of life for reasons aforementioned, added with being able to get materials, no one want to buy a 8" piece of steel and pay the shipping on it, i like to buy more and to cost average the shipping to save money..and say if you buy Mosaic pin stock, it comes normaly in 12" lengths, that's money laying around the shop, with a 10" piece left, that's money tied up. but it just a small part of the big picture..if we could just make knives and let someone else take care of the rest :)
 
I ship after I recieve payment. I've got a paypal merchant account set up now so it may make it easier for me and the customer. Once the payment is in the account the knife goes out the door.
Scott
 
I ship before accepting payment. Quite a few people have cautioned me against that policy, but it's nice to have some faith in people. I haven't been burned yet. I suppose if I am, I might change my policy.

I'm dead set against taking deposits. I don't like to have other people's money. If I had to purchase handle material that cost over $100 I might ask for some money up front, but only to cover materials cost. I understand the argument that a deposit means the customer is serious about the project and I think a maker should be paid for his labor if a customer disappears. But too many things happen to people and there have been a few makers who have walked off with a substantial amount of customer's money.
 
If a maker doesn't know me I would be quite happy to wait until my payment cleared. I understand how much getting ripped off for just one knife can mean to the knifemaker's bottom line.
 
Its pretty much a matter of trust. As a knifemaker, you have to be trustworthy, and I emphasize that because your word is your badge of honor. If I make a practice of doing shady deals, or renigging on knife deals, what does that say for me? That's why I have my way of doing things, and I stick to it. I don't take deposits, and therefore there will never be any hard feelings, and no excuses for the customer to think I owe him anything. I make knives, and if people like them enough to buy them, then that's cool. If not, well there's always Welfare. :rolleyes:
 
I agree with Chuck whole heartedly.....I took one deposit one time very early in my Knifemaking career...it was from a friend,actually a co-worker....I was in the service then. Almost every day was question & answers regarding the status of the knife. The pressure to perform with quality was enormous.......I felt conflicted if I went hunting or fishing...or if I just took a day to ride my motorcycle. " I should be in the shop" is what my mind was saying. Consequently I didnt enjoy myself much, that is until Idelivered that knife.

I will take an order, with out a time limit and with out a deposit. I understand this is a luxury I have due primarily to being Part Time, I will call the person as I start the order. Once its back from heattreat I will confirm again the specific order and give a realistic delivery time.

It might not be the best way but it works for me.......:)




Big John
 
As a collecter, I don't mind helping out with materials especially if they are $. I also have been known to help someone out if they are in a bind (but it would be nice to be paid back, or to keep communication open. As far as delivery times, I just do not worry too much about them. I figure I can not predict what will transpire in my life over the next few months or even years, so how in the heck can I expect a 1 person shop to do so.

Payment, my rep is important to me there are makers who send out knives with a note to send a check or the knife back and there are makers who like to have the payment before they send out the knife. It does not matter at all to me, but it is great that the trust is out there. All it takes is one bad experience when someone has put time and effort into a knife, so it is easy to understand why it is good to have the payment in hand.

As far as impatience from a customer, I have never really understood the mentality. I want the maker to have fun with what they are doing, I have plenty of knives to fondle, look at and use. So what's the hurry. A month or two or three does not make a difference, more than that communication is the key as far as I am concerned with that in place I do not have an issue.
 
I still take deposits, don't feel I need to justify it, but taking full payment can be a problem.

I'll still be happy to kick marks @ss anytime though :)
 
...Gus :thumbup:
I'd add if I haven't all ready
I understand with some guys the excitement is great, it's like a boy with a new toy on X-mas ,,I do understand, I'm the same way but I try to restrain myself:)
but in turn I'm not sure if some of the customers understands our end fully still
(if others are like me that is) that as an artist, if I'm pressured I don't work well, and that includes life's pressures also..no it's not right to hold up an order because life happens but then again life happens,,, and it's something we have to deal with, it's a catch 22 for us, at least for me.. as you say it takes one bad apple to screw things up for credit..its too bad some guys will miss out on some very nice knives because they have that obstruction holding them back.
I'd mention too "again" that it's been said and I do the same, I take a deposit on the first order and from that time on, I may not again from that customer, it's up to the customer most of the time from then on.

It's sad to think about but we don't know a new customers intent, think about the knives taken right off the show tables never to be seen again :(
we do have our problems for sure..the bad apples sure don't help and when the guys that don't take deposits get bit a few times they may think a bit different about it, 2-3 hundred bucks expected to use for the bills coming right up and then not there sucks, we have a bargain with the ele company too, we used it now they want their money.:eek: :)

Some customers want to get some money paid down on the knife to lessen the bill ,
some want to pay it up front to make sure it's paid for, when done,
because life does happen and they don't want to back out because of something unforeseen happening, because they are true to their order end and thier word,

I just had a guy ask for his deposit back a few weeks ago..because he lost his job
I said no problem I had to get stuff for the knife but still it was not a problem returning it ,because I had not started on the knife.
I asked him if he still wanted the knife?
he said yes yes yes but wasn't sure when he could pay for it and couldn't pay for it on time..I undrstood
(btw, his brother bought a knife from me about two years ago)
I told him that if he wanted to leave the deposit he could pay as he felt he could
I'm not in a hurry to finish the knife anyway because of other orders.
he agreed and will make some payments once done if he's still in a bind or just pay for it if he can in full...

everyone is different and has a story of their own, we can't please everyone all the time, we can come close though..if we understand each other...
I could go on for days about this but I'll stop now:)
 
Bigjohn said:
I agree with Chuck whole heartedly.....I took one deposit one time very early in my Knifemaking career...it was from a friend,actually a co-worker....I was in the service then. Almost every day was question & answers regarding the status of the knife. The pressure to perform with quality was enormous.......I felt conflicted if I went hunting or fishing...or if I just took a day to ride my motorcycle. " I should be in the shop" is what my mind was saying. Consequently I didnt enjoy myself much, that is until Idelivered that knife.

I will take an order, with out a time limit and with out a deposit. I understand this is a luxury I have due primarily to being Part Time, I will call the person as I start the order. Once its back from heattreat I will confirm again the specific order and give a realistic delivery time.

It might not be the best way but it works for me.......:)

Big John
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John I think your on to something here..my problem would be , the knife would never get done..that deposit also gives me an urgency, I need some motivation for the hum drum stuff..I like doing the fun stuff too much..


ysforge said:
I still take deposits, don't feel I need to justify it, but taking full payment can be a problem.
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yes great point
if you spend the money and get bound up with work
and behind in the bills it's easy to get so far behind you'll almost have to
use deposits from others to make the knife that was paid for in full.:eek: not good..
you'll get guys that want to pay in full up front..
the customer is always right you know :)

if you keep and account just for the purpose of holding the moneys and get use to not using it until the job is done, it will feel so much better..

that's a good job for the wives to handle. :) I think,, rrr not in my case:eek: :p god bless her but if it's there and to be had it gets spent..:eek: :rolleyes: :)
 
I'll have to side with Mr. Koster on this issue, I also take deposits just to insure that my would be custumer is serious about the purchase of a one of a kind blade(which is 95% of my knives) But hats off to the wiseman who made the comment about our "instant gratification" world we are living in today. I don't think it's your age that should be in question, I am not over 30 and I see the same problems you do, I also enjoy the time it takes to recieve something as a blessing and that it helps us appreciate it that much more.
 
:p OHHHH Dan , I am definately a FUN STUFF sort of guy....especially if the suns out and my bike is clean & shinney....:D
 
I take deposits from new customers. Repeat customers don't have to leave a deposit. The deposit from new customers goes towards the purchase of the specific materials involved. I give them an approximate date of completion (give or take a couple weeks). If there is some unforseen equipment failure, injury, etc, then I alert them to it and the possible delay with an additional eta. That has happened twice and it worked out just fine. There was one customer who waited a while and when time came for his knife to be finished and it wasn't, he wanted his money back. So, I refunded his money. You can always sell it to someone else, put it on your table, donate it to a good cause, or use it yourself, etc.
 
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