Design advices for beginners

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Aug 13, 2002
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I thought I'd post some of my thoughts it in case it can be of help to people starting their journey into the wonderful world of Knifemaking.

In the beginning, when I started, I thought that it would be cool to come up with “MY” knife design. Something never seen before that was practical and aesthetically pleasing. I thought that this was how I was suppose to develop my own style. So I focused on blade shape and quickly realized that with the number of knifemakers over thousands of years, pretty much every kind of blade shape has been tried. Don't get me wrong, there is always the possibility for something new but most of the time not radically new. The differences are subtle and you need a good amount of experience already to be able to incorporate them successfully in a design. I've been at it seriously for 2-3 years now and I still work off established blade designs.

What I would suggest is to use as I said, an established blade design. Then work on getting the grind basics right. Then if you want to practice your designing skills, do it with the handle, guard, pins, etc. There is much more you can do with these creatively. While you do this, you'll also work of perfecting the mechanics of it all of course. A really good looking design won't shine through if badly executed. And after a while,you may find that focusing less on the blade will actually free up your mind and it is then that the subtle changes you could do to it will come to you.

Two other tips I could add. First, try something just a little above your skill level from time to time. Not too much above your level but enough so that you'll be able to do it reasonably well. It's been suggested to do the same knife over and over and thats fine. It is how you'll prefect a particular skill. But eventually you may want to add new features and pushing yourself a little is a good way to develop the skills needed to do so without getting discouraged because you've aimed too high.

And finally, it may be a cliché but, think outside the box. WAY outside. Try to visualize things that seem to makes no sense at first. As an example, who said handle scales were suppose to be on the same plane as the blade, why not rotate them 90 degrees or even 45 degrees. Of course this may not work at all and even if it does, it will need to be worked on a lot to extract a practical result. But even if not much of the original idea remains, you may end up with something that I think would have been much harder to obtain without thinking way outside the established boundaries.

I hope this helps some of you.

PS: Here is the obligatory :o I hesitated a lot to post this because it may sounds pompous, like I know what I am talking about with my puny 2-3 year of experience. :( It is very possible that I am actually way off so take all this with a grain of salt and feel free to tel me if you think that I am full of cakapoo.;)
 
You are full of cakapoo!!!!







j/k Good advice to beginners. Keep making those awsome knives Patrice Lemee!
 
I totally agree! Im a fairly new maker but I always make sure I try something new and challenging!!! I dotn want to get stuck doing just one thing. I started off doing alot of full tang hunter and skinners then decided to try something new like guards and peining bolsters. Recently I decided to do a bowie style with a pommel and gaurd. Now im tryiong something real challenging even tho I thought it was gonna be easy. Kitchen knives. They get so thin it adds another aspect to grinding. Im always at home depot too buying cheap steel to practice grinds and filing and different little things. Hell I even practiced sanding and finishing on some pieces to try out different methods when I first started and was reading alot of advice online.

Now as for design I copy or am inspired by alot of knives wether it be another maker or even production blade etc.. Sometimes I mix a handle I like with a blade style I like and whatnot.

PS - i never sell a knife that i tried to copy from another maker without permission. I do have some where its a blatant copy and are personal knives but I think its real bad taste to make a copy (no matter how crappy I make them) of someone and sell as your own design. I like telling people "I was inspired by blah blahs knife he made" and show them the knife.
 
This is good advise, (in spite of the fact that Patrice is full of merde de cockapoo).

What makes it good is the fact that Patrice has done his homework, made a plan, and actually made some knives. Many post their advise on designing knives or how to do this and that ,but have made only a handful of knives.....or are on number one right now.

The second reason this is good advise, is that Patrice has had failures as well as successes. He learned from both.
 
Good advice Patrice, I completely agree with you.
I also like your WIP and how you share with the group.
I personally have learned quite a bit from them.
As a matter of fact I plan to try a Takedown hidden tang because of your work shown here.
Thanks for the inspiration.
CW
 
Best advice I ever got when drawing a knife - "Start with a curve." I believe this advice should be followed after trying out at least a handful of "tried and true" blade designs, as that is very sound advice also.

Now, for those folks just starting out, reading this thread for advice, read that sentence again "Start with a curve". Now go back and look at your notebook (or your graph paper) and see how many knives you started with a curve. It changed everything for me. Same thing goes for folks that have been doing this for a while, check out your old designs and compare to your new ones.

Of course, there are many exceptions to the start with a curve "rule", but one can just as easily change the advice to "Don't always start with a straight line." and do pretty well.
 
There is rarely anything new in our designs. I tried to come up with a new design for a golok incorporating some Native American warclub design into it..... found a picture of the exact design made 500 years ago in Tibet :( There is a reason for timeless designs, they're as close to functional perfection as a human can achieve, the Loveless Hunter is a design that comes to mind for me. Everything you need in a hunter is in this design and I usually recommend that people make a few of them at the start.

I usually ask new makers that stop by the shop to bring drawings of their knives and at least 1 knife, this lets me know what they think a knife is and where their skill set is in relation to their ideas. I'm not an expert in any of this but I know what I think works in knife designs.

I draw knives all the time, I keep a notebook, pencil and big eraser with me everywhere because I never know when inspiration hits. I usually use up a big eraser before I run out of pencil lead ;) Changing a line by as little as 1/8" can make a huge difference in the flow of a design. When I draw knives I sketch in curves for the flow. Tighten up the blade design, then draw, erase, draw, erase, erase and draw the handle. I concentrate a lot on handle design because it's our only interface with the blade.

I don't use a lot of straight lines in knife designs with a 4" or less blade, there's no room for them especially in handle treatment as far as my paradigm on knife usage and design allows. Larger blades can use straight lines because the curves become so thin that they may as well be straight. Grab some putty and hold it in your hand, see how many straight lines there are in your grip.
 
Obviously, I followed a different path. There's a reason I did, though. I follow the notion that if you're going to design a knife before you know how to properly make knives, you ought to design something that really isn't a knife... because that's what you'll end up with.

Otherwise, Patrice is absolutely correct.

Public Service Announcement: New knifemakers should NOT follow my example.

- Greg
 
cakapoo.

Now that I got that out of the way, a couple things:

Try to make the ricasso, if it exists, and the front of the handle pretty close in size, and lined up with each other. As a general observation, knives with a handle up that's bigger up front than the ricasso, or too much above/below it, can look clunky. The same is true for a handle that's much smaller than the ricasso, although I've seen knives that pull this off well.

A tip I picked up from Ed Caffrey- when building a knife with a guard, it can help to slant the guard slightly forward at the top. A knife that looks like the guard slants back at the top is usually kinda funky. Even if you use a square, or are otherwise careful to set your guard perfectly perpendicular to the line of the blade/spine, the human eye is odd in that it can still trick you into thinking the guard is slanting back at the top.

Try to make your handles stand out in their own right. You don't want your knife to look or feel like an afterthought to the blade. Many knives with good grinds, profile, damascus, whatever have what I call "blob" handles.

Just my opinion, many great knives out there counter these points.
 
Thanks guys. I forged my first blade this week. After I hammered in the bevels, and held it in my hand for two days, I heated the tang and added a CURVE! :D
I appreciate all the advice that is freely given.
 
There is rarely anything new in our designs. I tried to come up with a new design for a golok incorporating some Native American warclub design into it..... found a picture of the exact design made 500 years ago in Tibet :(

I remember that vividly- I sometimes use that exact story when talking about this subject!
 
Thank you for your posts Patrice. I am a green pea that just ground my first four knives tonight. I started thinking what can I do to be different, but in the end, its all about how you execute the design. I actually ground one from 1/8 stock and thought it would be different to grind the tang at an angle from top to bottom to follow the blade. The top is 1/8 and the bottom is like 3/32. I won't know how it will look until handles are put on but it was something different I wanted to try. Thinking outside the box is a good thing!
 
I've got a more unusual bit of advice for someone starting out, as like many I fell into this same trap and took too long to get out: does 'better' really mean you can bend it, or smash up bricks with it? Many promote a knife that is meant to do things that a knife simply shouldn't do. I was thinking about this yesterday while at the gun range. Looking at the 26" long stainless barrel of the rifle, I thought: how many people would consider sticking the end of a gun into the side of a cliff face to 'break their fall', or shoot prairie dogs with it, then use it to pry open thief car door due to some completely absurd scenario they created in order to justify the circumstance? Why are knifemakers the only ones that need to promote their tools as things they were never meant to be, and not gunsmiths, too?
Ask yourself if you're seeking to make a better knife, or what a better knife means to you! Don't take what's written to heart without questioning the intellect behind the statement!!!!
 
Try to make the ricasso..../snip/
A tip I picked up from Ed Caffrey- when building a knife with a guard... /snip/

See, Salem... I avoid making mistakes on knives by leaving out all the crucial design elements. Ha! No ricassos, no guards, no mirror finishes, bolsters, pins, slabs, lanyard tubes... wait a sec...:confused:........ my knives suck!:grumpy:
 
...maybe we should talk to Angelo.



Rick, I'm glad you've managed to come so far with your own introspection. I've been struggling for a way to tell you that for months. Although, maybe it's just you that sucks!:D:D:D


I think I see where all of this is heading, though... there likely is no right 'advice' for the new guy. I'll bet that when I was starting out I already had a bunch of ill-conceived notions, and my belligerent persona is not one that would willingly allow my viewpoints to be scrutinized. It's only after doing it wrong for a while and struggling that I manage to accept my fate and proceed forward. Kind of like a Northern Pike at the end of the line... I'll fight and fight until I just can't continue, then I drop to the bottom, exhausted and defenseless - only then will the realization sink in. Could be worse, I guess... at least at some point I manage to see it!!:o How horrible must it be to keep singing the same bullshit for 30 or 40 years without ever having the humility to reach a different conclusion!!!!:eek:
 
Rick, I'm glad you've managed to come so far with your own introspection. I've been struggling for a way to tell you that for months. Although, maybe it's just you that sucks!:D:D:D

So if it's me that sucks..... yer sayin' there's a chance for my knives..... sweet!

I guess what I try to say(in my own odd way) is "Be honest to yourself and your craft", "Seek out advice but don't blindly follow it.", "Advance at your own pace but never stop moving." and "Always remain humble and open to criticism."

If you stick to that, you will have the conviction to stand behind your descisions, because they are the best you can do with the knowledge you currently posess.

Rick
 
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