Design Critique - for a Marine - FINISHED!!

[Varga Knives]

Hey guys -

A bit of background - My cousin's son is a young Marine and we are all very proud of him. Prior to joining the Marines he was an EMT and he graduated first in his class at basic. He is in the Infantry as a Mortarman and right now he is going through some advanced training before going to Afghanistan. Good kid.

He was visiting the other day and we were going over CQB and stuff and the subject came around to weapons and of course knives. I told him about my attempts at making knives and we agreed I'd make him one.

Everything I have made so far has really been with no pressure. I have just tried different things to practice and to see what worked. So, my designs have never been a real issue as they were not intended for sale or "do or die" situations. Now the pressure is on, however. Not only does is need to stand up to real world hard usage but it also CAN NOT FAIL. I finally understand what pressure you guys go through when a knife leaves your shop. Not fun.

Anyway, he already has a multi tool and a Sealpup. Part of the dilemma is that everything is a compromise. Too big and it's too heavy and unwieldy to carry and too small and it's more prone to failure. I know there is no perfect size but please let me know what you would do.

The only stock I have left is 3/16" x 1.5" 1084. I think ideally I would like to use 5/32" so maybe I'll hold of until I order that or maybe 3/16" is fine.

I don't think I've done anything crazy with the design. Just kept it simple. If there is anything you guys don't like (or like) PLEASE let me know. Add a choil? Move the lanyard hole? Smaller, bigger, different steel? Whatever it is I can take it.

Oh, the handle I was planning is canvas micarta with flared tubes.

The last thing I have to say is that he is on the shorter side and has small hands (close to my wife size). I know what feels good to my hand but I'm going to have to rely on my wife's opinion for fit. I'll probably go the plywood proto route before I hit the steel.



Thanks!

 

[Matt Markell]

Personally, I like it, it's simple and to the point.

3/16" with a FFG sounds good. That 4" handle may be a bit small, remember he'll probably be wearing gloves a lot. Something you might consider doing is leaving a "smasher" pommel surface. Don't make it pointed, that'll just dig into your side while carrying it, make it flat for hammering.

Just my 2 cents

 

[Varga Knives]

Thanks! I like your 2 cents. I didn't even think about gloves! I intended the flat part of the butt for hammering but I'll extend it up a little higher.

 

[JerkeeJoe]

Here's one Ray Laconico did for me a while back that is very similar to what you propose. I love the design and it is one of my favorite larger knives. I particularly like the forward choil for use on smaller or more delicate tasks. In my opinion, it lends a lot of versatility to a bigger knife.

 

[Shaw Blades]

Differentially harden it.

... and I really like the sketch. Looks great.

 

[bikermikearchery]

Handle needs to be at least 5" long for gloved hands. It helps to be able to pick up a knife and tell where the cutting edge is with out looking.Marines do operate in the dark. A knife for a Marine is a tool to get the job done. Mission comes first. All the niceties of not using your knife for a prybar are gone when you need a pry bar and all you have is a knife. Hammer butts are another good idea.
My first hundred or so knives I made were for my Marine corps brouthers. Make it tough first. Rember " When you absolutely need something destroyed over night call the Unites States Marine Corps"

Semper Fi

 

[BarryHalls]

I showed the design to one of my friends who was a marine deployed to Afghanistan and the first thing he said was "I want one!"

I pressed him for some more input for a combat knife for the sand box and he suggested "A slight blood groove," and added "The overall shape is intimidating."

A blood grove should reduce resistance withdrawing a big knife from flesh.

I'd say, bare in mind that he's already got a Kabar, so that's the knife to beat, and my friend's personal gripe about the Kabar, and why he doesn't own one, is that it bends when you pry with it (as they do) and then it's no good for throwing, and slightly awkward for fighting.

As Biker stated, make it tough, tougher than the Kabar, whatever that takes. He comments about blindly knowing where the edge and point are just by grabbing the handle can not be understated. Everyone I've ever known to teach knife fighting demands this.

Again a personal note (and I don't claim to be the expert, but I ask a lot of questions of the right people) one of my friends has twice been stabbed, and both times his life was saved by the attackers' hands slipping over the hand guard and cutting themselves on the blade. For this reason my knife designs will probably always have huge front hand guards. Again I would reference the Kabar. You want that size or larger, I think and more of a 90 degree angle to the grip rather than a slope, to maximize retention.

Your blade resembles a beefed up Buck Nighthawk which is a favorite of knife fighters that I talk to. I think this says you are on the right track for an excellent fighting and survival knife.

Just opinions, and I hope they help!

The design looks amazing and I can't wait to see the knife!

 

[Varga Knives]

Thanks guys for the compliments and lots of things to think about. I don't have the tooling for a blood groove but I think it will pull out of flesh quite easily . Actually, I never even think of a knife as a weapon. Obviously, in combat especially, you use what you've got. But when he's scouting he'll have an M4 and a pistol. If the rifle jams you go for the pistol. If the pistol jams you fix your rifle. You never know, though.

Laconico is the master of simplicity and I love that knife you got there. All my larger knives have choils but I doubt it's really necessary on this one. This, to me, is a small knife and a good way to choke up on a small knife is to put your middle finger where you index would go and tuck your index knuckle against the blade. Stretch your thumb down the spine and you're all set.

I will incorporate a steeper angle to the guard.

You got me thinking about prying and I have idea that I need to really think about before I attemp it. Nothing crazy, just a multi-grind with a beefed up tip and a different bevel for the flat edge.

Like to type more but gotta run.

 

[Thomas Linton]

A blood grove should reduce resistance withdrawing a big knife from flesh.

And politicians should be honest, but not so. They didn't understand why the fuller was in the Marbles Ideal, an icon of pre-WWII "hunting knives," so they put it in the wrong place on the "KA-Bar." It perhaps made the Ka-Bar stiffer while reducing weight, but it was largely decorative.

In theory, a choil can cause the blade to hang up when you try to remove it. Back when knives were primary weapons, they didn't have choils.

 

[aarongb]

Since you asked... I love the design, good and basic. My only nitpick is the placement of the lanyard hole. When I use a lanyard cord, I want the edge to point away from my arm or perpendicular when the knife is hanging. Where yours is placed, the edge would angle the edge up towards the arm. Not sure if I explained that right. In any case, not a big deal, thats just my preference.

As for a blood groove, ever stabbed a huge chunk of meat (picnic shoulder, ham, etc) and had any difficulty pulling it out without a blood groove? Just sayin'.

 

[tattooedfreak]

A blood groove is for reducing weight while keeping the knife stiff, it really wont have any effect on resistance especially since and elastic material (such as flesh) will conform to any groove. 3/16 is good for what you are making, thinner and he will break it guaranteed. The first thing he will use it for in the field is as a tool, cutting, chopping, hacking anything and everything because someone else has the hatchet or whatever. Dont make it any longer than 12" and even that is pushing it, remember he will be wearing it on his vest where he can reach it easily since he will have (probably) a pistol and ammo, multi-tool, zip straps, flashlight, small utility pouch and a couple of other things. He wants the knife available so it will be right in front, upside down. Don't worry too much about the gloves either, the new gloves are thinner and have more dexterity and some are kevlar lined. Your design is good, put a small guard on it if you want. I wouldn't make the blade any longer than 6"-6.5", the handle around 5"-5.5". As in Rays knife, keep .5" of the butt end bare of handle for prying and it will also save the handle from chipping or coming off when he hammers on it. You can put a lanyard hole in it but I doubt it will get used for that as the lanyard would just get tangled in his gear. Full flat grind with a thick tip will serve the purpose as well, no need for multiple grinds or differential heat treating.

sean

 

[Frank Niro]

I think it's a good one !!! A comment I have that I believe would help when being used is a larger finger notch in the handle or not one at all. Frank

 

[frenchman]

Did I get that right? He joins the corps while having an education as am EMT, and they send him to the mortars?

 

[BarryHalls]

Somehow I missed the Mortar bit. I think I've heard this one before. Either I know him or I'm having BAD deja vu!

EDIT: Must be deja vu. I can't find any evidence to the contrary. I am WAY to young for my mind to be goin already!

 

[jehicks87]

looks great, but I'd go with a convex grind, or failing that a saber grind. Slicing isn't that important for a blade of that length or intended purpose, but strength is. The sketch looks awesome, and you're on the right track using carbon steel. If there is any way to insulate it against electrical current (need to chop a powerline, cut through and aircraft skin, etc etc.)

FWIW, I was aircrew for three years and one combat deployment. I know what a sere knife should and should not be. I would have loved to have had a blade like that.

 

[thebrain]

Please take this with a grain of salt. First I will say I love the profile and I think 3/16" is thick enough without being to thick. I think the no choil thing is perfect for this type of knife(ever tried cutting netting with a knife with a choil? ). Also a hand filling grip that is at least partly insulated would be great, maybe wrap the tang in G10 and epoxy filled countersunk flared tubing to hold it all together. Also maybe think about a high saber grind or full convex to give more mass in the blade. Otherwise that thing looks sweet.

 

[Varga Knives]

Thanks guys and Happy New Year!

Freak - I'll rework the sketch tomorrow with some of your great suggestions. I think you might be right about it not needing a lanyard, too.

Frank - I may also drop the finger notch but I dunno yet. I know it looks small (and it is) but when we put are palms together for comparison the tips of his fingers didn't even come to my last digits.

Ball's dropping ....

 

[pap11y]

Great design. I like a fat handle to lessen hand fatigue.

 

[Will52100]

Nice design, only thing I'd add would be a bit more of a guard. The vast majority of military knives are used as tools first, and a weapon as last resort, say you out of ammo and don't even have the empty rifle to use as a club.

 

[Longtrang]

I am in Afghanistan myself. Preferred method of carry is either on the IBA/IOTV/Plate Carrier or just forward of the drop leg holster with the bottom strap acting as a stay for the knife. So I don't think a skull crusher would affect carry at all. A choil would be cool but personally I like the design as it is. A guard was never too terribly important to me and the blade being wider than the handle should offer quite a bit of protection. Not my cup of tea but a lot of guys swear by partial serrations. Makes sense when you figure it will be used most often to open MREs, cut 550 cord, camo netting etc. Unless it's a surprise I would ask what he prefers, since he is caring a SEAL pup I am guessing he is one of the guys who like the serrations. I like a partially sharpened clip, not a requirement but it sure helps with penetration. There is no way he is going to use it for batoning anyway. I tend to use the sharpened clip on my fire starter as well. I know a lot of knife experts will disagree with me but this is coming straight from the mouth of a combat vet, which isn't the gospel but after half a decade in a combat zone I have a pretty good idea what most guys like to carry. I put money down that it you sharpen a 2" clip and put in 1.5 - 2" of serrations he will freaking love it.