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Design feedback on a general purpose survival. Now WIP. Done! :)
- Thread starter peppen108
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I have to ask why you would make a survival blade that doesn't feel as "trusty" as another design you are cultivating? I think you are listening to everybody else(which is good) and trying to incorporate all these suggestions.(which can quickly muddy up a design). What I think you should do is cut out a few wooden blanks(rectangle) and hold them in your hand. Carve away material, little by little, until it "feels" right.(in my experience look and feel can be very different) It may take a few tries, but it is like having shoes made for your feet.
I know you are right Rick, I hope i don´t come across as if I am arguing or neglecting you. If I would not have made the wood moc-up (rectangular) i probably would have gone whit a to small diameter. Thank for pushing me. I redrew the design slightly whit a kitchen knife i like as a model for the curve of the guard. An even better way would be the way you suggested gradually carving. But i have limited time at the shop. The word trusty was a badly chosen word. I meant to say that the design might end up feeling bad, or I´m taking a risk whit this design.
That being said I had the blanks cut today and they feel great or should i say very promising.
A 2 min video of the water cutting.
[video=youtube;3d-jncEMY7w]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3d-jncEMY7w&feature=youtu.be[/video]
The only remark on the water cut is that the cut is not at an 90 degrees angel so some post-production work is necessary. The guy told me this and it´s probably well known. But for the rookies out the its god to know.
That being said I had the blanks cut today and they feel great or should i say very promising.
A 2 min video of the water cutting.
[video=youtube;3d-jncEMY7w]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3d-jncEMY7w&feature=youtu.be[/video]
The only remark on the water cut is that the cut is not at an 90 degrees angel so some post-production work is necessary. The guy told me this and it´s probably well known. But for the rookies out the its god to know.
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Cool video. You go with whatever you feel is right, peppen... that is what I wanted to stress more than any design suggestion I might have given. Keep us up to date.
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Different strokes... I find lanyards more of a nuisance than an aid and in some circumstances(though they may keep everyone else around you safe), a danger to the user.
I am currently working on to blades of this design. Sand blasted them yesterday and made an imprint of a P.
Hand-tooling this steel on totally four blades at the same time has gone from zen-meditation to some thing else (less meditative). AEB-L is a Knife and Scalpel Steel by Böhler-Uddeholm.
The blank above is about 75% done.
Hand-tooling this steel on totally four blades at the same time has gone from zen-meditation to some thing else (less meditative). AEB-L is a Knife and Scalpel Steel by Böhler-Uddeholm.
The blank above is about 75% done.
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Done filing. Everything seems to be A-ok. I have got about 1mm more bevel to draw up but I am going to save it for the sandpapers. The knife will be vacuum cryo hardened and the guys at the shop said that i could basically finish the bevel and just polish of the oxide afterwards. This is truly amazing for me because I don´t own a belt sander.
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peppen,
I will have to say that the technology is top rate.....but the design is inferior. I know you want this design, and are ignoring the suggestions, but that knife would never be sold by me or any maker I know, as it is an accident waiting to happen.
I will have to say that the technology is top rate.....but the design is inferior. I know you want this design, and are ignoring the suggestions, but that knife would never be sold by me or any maker I know, as it is an accident waiting to happen.
My index finger is bleeding just thinking about it. I love the overall style, but seriously consider grinding off the edge for maybe 2 or 3 mm. Bring it up about 1/5 of the bevel and just ease the corners. That way you've got essentially the same setup but without the seriously increased (100%) chance of cutting yourself with it.
Something like in these two. It's much more visible in the second, and neither needs it from a safety point of view but I wanted clearance for bits of food and such.
eta: Sorry, visible in the TOP one, just happens to be version two of that general design so by habit I called it the second.
Something like in these two. It's much more visible in the second, and neither needs it from a safety point of view but I wanted clearance for bits of food and such.
eta: Sorry, visible in the TOP one, just happens to be version two of that general design so by habit I called it the second.
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Honestly you can't design a pattern that will last the test of time with "design" alone. You need to use the design and morph what doesn't work to enhance the potential.
True design comes from allowing the designers to evolve and no one notices and each evolution is an improvement in some way. My 2 most popular patterns are about the 4th or 5th generation and I've never had anyone notice.
Drawing a knife pattern is the easy part.
Today at blade I sold one of those said patterns to a person that didn't know me nor my work because he simply picked up the knife and he said...."damn, I shouldnt have picked this up. This is a true user..."
I don't say that to brag at all. I say that because I have had about 6 users of that design and tweaked the pattern as needed since 2003.
Finish this pattern, use it and.....what needs to change will if your interested in designing a user and not drawing patterns.
Keep it up because it's about the long term investment in your patterns and the people giving you feedback that want what you make b
True design comes from allowing the designers to evolve and no one notices and each evolution is an improvement in some way. My 2 most popular patterns are about the 4th or 5th generation and I've never had anyone notice.
Drawing a knife pattern is the easy part.
Today at blade I sold one of those said patterns to a person that didn't know me nor my work because he simply picked up the knife and he said...."damn, I shouldnt have picked this up. This is a true user..."
I don't say that to brag at all. I say that because I have had about 6 users of that design and tweaked the pattern as needed since 2003.
Finish this pattern, use it and.....what needs to change will if your interested in designing a user and not drawing patterns.
Keep it up because it's about the long term investment in your patterns and the people giving you feedback that want what you make b
@bladsmth. There is is a good chance I will have to scrap this project or move back several steps in the design process on this knife. If it looks dangerous to you it probably does so to a lot of people and I don´t want that. The main issue, that I will have to find a solution to, is that I literally want my index finger touching the edge. If a guard and/or mid-sized ricasso stops me from holding the knife like this i find i useless. Ive been using shaving sharp knives like this for 25 years an have not cut my self working whit a knife (I have cut my self working on knives thou 
). But I don't argue whit you if it look dangerous that is a problem. I will finish this one thou because i believe you learn something by doing so and maybe the solution is not far of.
@Remyrw Greate advise. I was thinking about flattering of a tiny part to avoid snagging. But this is some thing to think about.
@blgoode Yes my design process is a bit forced. You have to start somewhere before you can start to feed experience back in to the process and make adjustments based on the that.
). But I don't argue whit you if it look dangerous that is a problem. I will finish this one thou because i believe you learn something by doing so and maybe the solution is not far of. @Remyrw Greate advise. I was thinking about flattering of a tiny part to avoid snagging. But this is some thing to think about.
@blgoode Yes my design process is a bit forced. You have to start somewhere before you can start to feed experience back in to the process and make adjustments based on the that.
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Hey Peppen,
There are lots of blade design that allow you to get right up next to the cutting edge with relative safety. Blades with "choils"(as you have done with your other bushcraft design) give you the option of shifting your grip forward. Finnish knives rarely have guards but the edge is often along the same plain as the handle or a bit below. I think what scares most of us about your particular design is that the cutting edge is raised enough to make indexing very dangerous.... and a survival knife should, for all intents and purposes, be "dummy proof" as it may be called upon during times of fatigue and duress.
There are lots of blade design that allow you to get right up next to the cutting edge with relative safety. Blades with "choils"(as you have done with your other bushcraft design) give you the option of shifting your grip forward. Finnish knives rarely have guards but the edge is often along the same plain as the handle or a bit below. I think what scares most of us about your particular design is that the cutting edge is raised enough to make indexing very dangerous.... and a survival knife should, for all intents and purposes, be "dummy proof" as it may be called upon during times of fatigue and duress.
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It's slowly sinking in. You mention the Finnish knife tradition. The Swedish (and Sami tradition) uses guard predominating on the military and children knives. Even the traditional Sami chopper knives are made whit out a guard. I posting a pic so you guy's can see where I am coming from.
The first knife I bought at the age of 7
My favorite knife
The last knife I completed. It's for my mother.
You mention the Finnish knife tradition. The Swedish (and Sami tradition) uses guard predominating on the military and children knives. Even the traditional Sami chopper knives are made whit out a guard. I posting a pic so you guy's can see where I am coming from.
The first knife I bought at the age of 7
My favorite knife
The last knife I completed. It's for my mother.
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I am all for the knives you just posted. MANY of my own knives have no guards. However, those knives are very different than your current design, where the edge lies just above the plane of the handle but not enough to create an integral guard. As it stands, you are at the "inbetween" zone... and that is a dangerous place to be, even for a skilled user, IMO.
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