Determining value: When does a knife cost too much?

Snacktime said:
Side note...
Current Snap On is crap, there warranty is worse than harbor freight. Same with Klein Tools! I no longer buy anything from a a tool truck, all online german tools wiha and wera.
Click to expand...

When I first got into the electrical trade everyone told me to get Klein tools. That's the electricians tools! I got a pair of Klein linemans pliers, the heavy duty ones rated to cut acsr. Not three years later and they were worn out. Cutting Jaws scissored, rivet so loose you'd think they were going to come apart. Traded them in under warranty, but have no idea what I did with that pair...

Now I use Knipex. Still perfect after 3 years. Also have their cobra and alligator pliers, wire shears, pliers wrench... Yup, screw Klein. They were top dog at one time, but quality has taken a nosedive. I know people with 30 year old kleins that are still great, but new ones wear out so fast they're not even worth it, even with the warranty. Most people I know buy new tools every year or so anyway, or at least used to when you could claim them on your taxes...

I have a few Klein tools still, but no screwdrivers (junk).

I think my wrenches are Husky though, or Pittsburgh... Cheap wrenches and sockets are fine. I want the good stuff when it comes to my pliers though.
 
rp5 said:
I'll push back on the "a knife is too expensive when I'm afraid to use it" theory just because some people are too afraid to use it. It's a divergence between buying quality approach and a collector's approach. I've gone through this experience with sunglasses, cars, whatever. Can you buy a $10 knife, a $10 pair of sunglasses, or a $1,000 car and get by? Yes... for a while. Most likely within a year, it'll break, you'll lose it, ultimately you just didn't care much about it because it was a junker. I broke or lost five pairs of $10 sunglasses in one year in my late teens. So maybe you upgrade to a $100 knife, a $100 pair of sunglasses, or a $10,000 car. Absolutely fine options, and you'll probably value/maintain it better than your junker. It should last a longer time. You could have picked an option half that cost, or an option double that cost, and the difference in price should equal the difference in quality/function. It will depend on what you can afford, but ultimately you should be using whatever option you chose. I don't buy a $20,000 car and then walk everywhere so it can sit in a "safe" garage. That said, if you value/maintain your tools properly, you're not prying with a knife, leaving your sunglasses near a puppy, or driving with the oil light on.

Does that mean someone buying a $500 knife, a $500 pair of sunglasses, or a $50,000 car is Jeff Bezos? No. They're just buying higher quality tools, so long as they're willing to use them. The difference is owning more than one and starting a collection. If you're collecting things, items turn from tools to investments. You may need to be able to sell X in order to buy Y. At that point, you can't really afford for the items to be tools, and that has nothing inherent to do with the value of the item. A $500 knife is an easy buy if it's your only one and lasts 50 years properly valued and maintained. A knife costs too much when it doesn't offer superior quality/function to cheaper options, pure and simple.
Click to expand...


I think this leads to an actual quantifiable measure that can maybe steer the direction away from vague relativity of value.
Quality of a product can be measured and evaluated, the buyer ultimately will decide if it is worth it for them depending on their own criteria. There is a line most people will draw based on what competitors are offering. We can't just sum it up to materials and say this material is worth X and that material is worth Y so X is better because it's a higher grade material. Because we have to account for quality of construction as well and end result and finish of X or Y as well
It becomes easier when we don't compare cross brand and stick within the same brand and model of knife then materials become very important in quality of materials.
If we take a Spyderco Delica as the base model to experiment on, we can agree a FRN delica with 440A steel is worth less than a Titanium handle Delica in Maxamet. If Spyderco released an FRN Delica in 440A and listed it at 250 price tag, then released the Titanium Delica in Maxamet and listed it at 200 price tag. We can agree that the Maxamet Delica at 200 is the better deal than the FRN 440A Delica for 250. People would generally agree that the quality of the FRN 440A is not worth the price of 250 and I doubt many would want to buy it if it was a production non sprint run model.
So we can make judgements on value if we have comparisons.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: rp5
A knife costs what the market is willing to pay for it. You have to pay a certain amount to get good quality, that's unavoidable. People will buy some really overpriced stuff just because they like it, which unfortunately can inflate prices across the board. Don't get me wrong, I appreciate really fine products, but unless I get quite a bit of quality for my cash I tend to lose interest.

I used to think that to be a knife enthusiast you had to have expensive knives in premium steels, I guess I encountered a few gatekeepers back then. I'm wiser now and I know that it's less about what you can afford and more about learning about knives and appreciating what you can get your hands on. I used to view the term "Budget knife" with a bit of a negative context, but as long as it's not a counterfeit and the designs aren't a ripoff of a known manufacturer it's not such a bad thing to get quite a bit of performance for your money. You can spend a lot of money whittling on the diminishing return curve.

If I'm going into the woods I have no problems with a short Machete and a Mora or RAT-1. I could get by daily with a Victorinox or a 420HC Kershaw or Buck. Is everything else overpriced? I don't necessarily think so, but one could see it that way.
 
Mohave Aviator said:
...when it comes to personal defense/emergencies, I want a knife with superb blade quality. I want a blade that is at least 3.5 inches ( though 4 is ideal) with excellent edge retention and corrosion resistance. I don’t care about how difficult it is to sharpen...
Click to expand...

In this instance the blade length is a non-starter, as there are expensive and inexpensive knives of all sizes. I would suggest any differences in "corrosion resistance" in this context is also a non-issue (a dirt cheap knife can have better corrosion resistance than a full custom), given such a knife is reserved for "personal defense/emergencies."

So in terms of pure function in the setting you describe, many inexpensive/baseline knives are going to perform as good as expensive ones.

Difficult for many to compare say a $41.95 CS SRK with a $435.00 Randall Model 5, but in terms of function/performance, they truly are comparable.
 
Last edited:
A sure sign I paid too much for something is if I hesitate to use it for what I bought it for.
 
SanLuisObispo said:
How long will people buy Snap-On when Harbor Freight is quickly approaching in terms of product quality at what, 1/20th the price?
Click to expand...
Don't want to take this off topic but professionals will buy Snap On as long as it's status quo.
One can tell by the sound when something other than Snap On hits the repair bay floor.
 
Cheap tools lead to rounded fasteners, and when it's a customer's vehicle a professional treats as good or better than his or her own vehicle. While the cheap tools look fine and work alright for the occasional repair job, they will not hold up to long term hard use. It's not just wrenches and sockets, I had a 3/8 drive Stanley ratchet that I sheared the screws off of with just hand pressure, fell apart in my hand. There wasn't much else I could do but laugh.

My dad ran an auto repair shop in a rural area for 20 years, in that time a lot of rusty old farm trucks passed through that shop, most of them with corroded nuts and bolts that hadn't been touched in years. He used Snap-on and Craftsman. Yeah, Snap-on is pricey but they work, not sure I ever saw him break any of them. The Craftsman tools were the ESEE of the tool world, you break it they fix it. I remember him filling a box with broken tools, when we went to Sears he went to the counter and got them all replaced, they never gave him any trouble. If it weren't for the Craftsman warranty I think he would have switched over to Snap-on completely, and from the sound of it he was right to take full advantage of it.

I know, a little off topic, but it is somewhat relevant for knives as well. You have to pay for quality, but when it comes to the knife world there are a lot of knives that are more art than tool. Strangely enough the titanium bearing flipper wrench with carbon fiber inlays never really caught on.
 
Last edited:
One thing that people early on in the knife collection hobby don’t seem to get is that there is a point where the cost of the knife doesn't translate to increased performance. Especially these days where high end steels like 20CV and M390 can be had for cheaper than ever before. With that in mind, what makes a knife too expensive comes down to “what is it offering? Is there a comparable option? What price bracket is it in?”

A perfect example is the Grimsmo Norseman. Initially it was priced around $500 (US) I believe. At that price and at that time it was a very well priced knife as it delivered a whole lot for your money. The machining was excellent, the fit and finish was tight, and the steel was pretty good. Not to mention the anodizing and other options you could get. There wasn’t much at the time that compete, even for the price. Now things have changed. The knife in its most basic form is $950 (US). That’s no extra machining, no anodizing, no upgraded steel, just two stonewashed titanium scales and an RWL-34 blade. The knife has become too expensive for what it offers.

Take a look at some competitive knives and you’ll see what I mean:
- A full Ti machine ground Demko AD-20 in 20CV steel is $625
- A full Ti Hoback Kwaiback with a machine ground CTS-XHP blade is $695
- A Medford Praetorian T with a hand ground (not by Greg) 3V or S35VN blade with full Ti scales is $700

These are machine made full Ti midtechs just like the Norseman and they are at least $250 cheaper. I don’t believe there is $250 more machining, tolerances, or action in the Norseman verses the other knives listed which is why I say it’s overpriced.
 
jideta said:
Don't want to take this off topic but professionals will buy Snap On as long as it's status quo.
One can tell by the sound when something other than Snap On hits the repair bay floor.
Click to expand...
I don't think so. One would have to be nuts to actually buy a Snap-On tool cabinet for instance, when it's made in the same factory as Harbor's offering at 1/20th the price.

My sets of Snap-On wrenches are now just about 30 years old. They've performed well and they were better than the Craftsmen clubs of the day. Same with my 1/4, 2/8 and 1/2 ratchets (used with Craftsmen sockets.) Not so anymore. Unless it's a specialized tool, Snap-On is more about convenience (the salesman comes to you) and I guess, prestige.
 
It's a tool. I think the equation goes: What I actually need (accomplish task + comfort + reliability + no stress + warranty) + how much I'm willing to spend for non essential extras (brand name + country of manufacture + aesthetics + style/fashion).

Of course the moment it's being considered as something more than a tool, i.e. collector item, sentimental, toy, fidget, purely fashion, etc this all goes out of the window. The equation above allows for a tool and backup for any specific given task but not really anything more. At that point, it's no different than any other object which fits into those non use related categories and the spending limit is set outside of any reference to the actual utility of the item in question.
 
I don't use ratchets and sockets all day like I used to. So I don't need Snap-On tools. But they just felt so good in my hands that if I were using them all day like I used to, my toolbox would be full of Snap-On tools. And that's a fact.
 
jideta said:
Don't want to take this off topic but professionals will buy Snap On as long as it's status quo.
One can tell by the sound when something other than Snap On hits the repair bay floor.
Click to expand...

I learned to buy wrenches by ringing them on concrete. I have 1967 snap on wrenches and sockets I bought second hand and they ring! New stuff is crap, ratchets are crap... Snap on cresent wrenches are made by bahco in spain, same cresent wrench that channellock sells.

I trust harbor freight tools more than ever, as companies no longer make a product to last it's all about profits! Straight to china freight if I need it now or one time use. I made a living for a while off my tools, stocked my work truck with cheap tools.

I don't think Spyderco is worth the money for the fit and finish. I do think they make a lifetime product and that is why I buy them. One of the few companies left in this world that does things right.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top