Diamond Stropping ?(compounds in syringe vs diamond spray)

Bearzilla911

Bearzilla911

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Hello,

I've been using diamond compounds from 5ml syringes for stropping knives—one side of the strop with diamond, the other with green compound. Never tried diamond sprays. How do they compare? It seems like compound would get more diamonds onto the strop, but that's just intuition. Thoughts?
 
I'm inclined to believe the sprays are likely easier to work with. This is only due to what I've read in others' experiences reported here. I've only used DMT's syringe paste product in 6, 3 and 1 micron up to now.

With the paste compounds, it was always kind of tricky for me to figure out how much was enough or how much was too much on a strop. More often than not, I tended to over-apply the paste and ended up scraping some of it off in use, effectively wasting it. I've been tempted for some time now to try one of the reputable spray compounds. But I haven't yet done that because my current philosophy toward stropping has been to do it as minimally as I can, usually on just a bare leather belt. I try to refine as much as I can on the stone, then strop only enough to clean up any loose remnants of burrs. The toothy bite I get directly from the stone is what I strive to preserve, so I minimize stropping as much as possible.

And unless you want to mirror-polish your edge bevels, I tend to believe 'less is more' in terms of how much compound should be applied to the strop. I've also read others' comments here echoing the same opinion. Diamond works VERY fast in cleaning up burrs and refining edges. And if you want to preserve some toothy bite in your edges without over-polishing them or rounding over the apex on a strop, then a very light application of compound and very few stropping passes would work the best. I'm inclined to believe the sprays should be easier to apply in a light manner.

If polishing to a high mirror finish is the goal, then a somewhat denser application of compound on a very firm or hard strop of wood works very well. A hard stropping surface reduces the risk of rounding over the apex when polishing. When I was more interested in polished convex finishes on blades, I really liked using DMT's 3 micron paste on hardwood for that. It worked very fast and very well.
 
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Good thoughts. Yeah, I usually polish knife bevels to mirror. And I also strop in between sharpenings. Also, when switching utility knife blades I strop those before I put them in utility knives. I find makes a huge difference in the initial sharpness, but those are disposable so that is just a habit and not needed, especially with the type of cutting I would do with a utility blade, ha.
 
I've never used the pastes, but I'm a big fan of the spray on diamond emulsions. It's very easy to apply and it's surprising how much use I get between applications. My knives rarely see any hard use, so once sharpened to the edge I like, it can be maintained with stropping, almost indefinitely. I don't do mirror edges, so 3 or 4 micron is as fine as I go, but they're available down to .1, I think.
 
Bearzilla911 said:
Good thoughts. Yeah, I usually polish knife bevels to mirror. And I also strop in between sharpenings. Also, when switching utility knife blades I strop those before I put them in utility knives. I find makes a huge difference in the initial sharpness, but those are disposable so that is just a habit and not needed, especially with the type of cutting I would do with a utility blade, ha.
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Funny you stated that you strop utility blades... I have as well, but only for testing purposes. Stropping can get those in the 50 range pretty easily, but I would think the edge stability suffers as they are already mighty thin.
In regards to Obsessed comments, he is spot on in my opinion. However, I will add this about stropping compounds. I test results on a BESS tester throughout my entire sharpening process on most knives recording the results. I had been using DMT paste in 6, 3 and 1mu. My results were ok, but it took more passes across the strop to achieve the end result I was after. Eventually, I picked up some paste for Tech Diamond Tools in the same microns. According to my BESS, the Tech Diamond Tools significantly reduced the number of passes needed and was more effective in removing mutant burrs from cheap stainless. (My goto for stropping paste is Tormek's PA-70. I use diamonds for harder and super steels.)
If you have a BESS, test them yourself. Perhaps the sprays are better? I opted for the paste to try to reduce the number of tiny Diamonds sneaking past my beard through the respirator.
 
Tensaw said:
I've never used the pastes, but I'm a big fan of the spray on diamond emulsions. It's very easy to apply and it's surprising how much use I get between applications. My knives rarely see any hard use, so once sharpened to the edge I like, it can be maintained with stropping, almost indefinitely. I don't do mirror edges, so 3 or 4 micron is as fine as I go, but they're available down to .1, I think.
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We use Shun's for most light cutting and chopping in the kitchen. After sharpening and stropping to somewhere under 100, If I strop by every third use or so, I can generally strop them back to my original number for 6 to 8 months before I consider grinding on them. Pocket knives are the same. For me, the key is stropping often. Once that apex starts creeping up in width, the harder it is to strop back without removing the teeth. If you strop weekly they really go quite a while. Without stropping my knives would need reground much more frequently as I need everything SHARP...
 
Bearzilla911 said:
Hello,

I've been using diamond compounds from 5ml syringes for stropping knives—one side of the strop with diamond, the other with green compound. Never tried diamond sprays. How do they compare? It seems like compound would get more diamonds onto the strop, but that's just intuition. Thoughts?
Click to expand...
First off , at micron levels MORE is not better . Spray or highly diluted diamond dust is better than gobs of goop .

Contrary to what I am about to say I just bought some 600 grit in a syringe .
It was the first thing I came across for my specific purpose (trying to get deep scratches out of the side of my narrow M4 blade after some serious thinning of the blade ) . The blade was just laughing at 300 grit (fine) Enery cloth as well as 500 Wet or Dry Silicon Carbide paper .
I slathered the 600 diamond goop on the 500 paper and am finally begining to make some serious headway using a rubber block as backing.

anyway

for finish stropping of fine polished edges on high vanadium (4 to 9 percent vanadium) blades I sused out some 15,000 (1 micron) diamond dust and just apply it with a wet finger to the stropping medium , usually finish side cowhide on an Edge Pro plate .

What I mean to say is I make a very weak solution of a lot of water and a touch of dust in a puddle on the plastic "box" that the stropping plate came in and wipe the solution over the surface of the leather careful to not leave thick areas or lumps .

Seems to work well .


Personally I am not too impressed with the syringes with the paste , I have to thin it out A LOT with mineral oil before applying . I have some 50,000 that I have fought over the years ( the plunger sticks and won't move I have to dig the goop out of the nozzle with a hunk of wire).

As far as the sprays go ; seems vastly over priced at ?$30? and more ?
And I have to breath the mist ? ((haven't actually been brave enough to try some)) .

Nah , for the ultra fine stuff for final stropping the dry powder looks best to me .
Heck I do so few strokes , couple per side of an edge , I haven't even renewed my leather surfaces once applied .

This was my earlier knife stropping acutrama :
50,000 diamond paste strop at top.
Then two strops I have been using in the last couple years ; both with 15,000 diamond dust applied in water slurry . Over did it a bit with first one .
Yes , you've spotted it . It is too easy , for me , to barely touch the strop with the edge when lifting the strop (while in the Edge Pro) and take a divot off the strop or slice into it . It helps to lift before I hit the end of the stroke but it is too easy , for me , to forget to do this .

Aditionally the scratch marks in the strops are from the tip of the knife just from normal stropping motion .
For me this is BS and makes me HATE strops .
I only use the dambed things because of the book on paper wheel sharpening that says it is a good Idea .

The more I do this stropping BS the more I think : they are talking about solving problems they have CREATED with power / curved wheel sharpening and the less I think it applies to hand sharpening on flat surfaces with very low abrasive grit speed .

I mean I have been able to , every time , get edges that will take multiple curls off a single hair while it is still in my arm with only jig and stone sharpening to 8,000 grit water stones alone with zero stropping . Why am I stropping again ? ? ? ? maybe a touch more durable apex ? ? ?
maaaaybe .
OK miny rant over .

1775959900568.jpeg

Here is my very first stropping equip
Gold compound block that of late I have used on a Denim strip . Mostly I use it for softish stainless .
I used to scrape dust / chips off the block and onto the rough strop using that ceramic sharpening cone . Can rub mineral oil on the block to disolve some to rub on but on the denim and on rough leather it is all just a PITA .
In other words : dust or spray would be nice to have here .
1775959987938.jpeg

OK if you have made it this far buckle up for a crazy idea ; mostly for very hard blades mind you . (seems to me I don't need a soft flexing stropping surface for the following . . .
I have been fooling around with the following idea . . .
"stropping" with a Hard White Arkansas stone with diamond dust on it . 🤪
1775960035123.jpeg

and to put on my Edge Pro Apex . . .
with the same 15,000 diamond on it .
I have this coming in the Mail for my Edge Pro . Just got it this evening. It's a Translucent Hard Arkansas stone that I plan to add 15,000 diamond slurry to .
1775960214402.jpeg

Well that's about all I got .
Stropping ?
Optional in my view .
Spray ? Too exspensive unless maybe for rough side strops .
Better to just use good , nostainless steel and skip all that .
 
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Hey I found it :
Cliff Stamp talking about adding Diamond or CBN (spray etc. ) to a water stone for high grit diamond edge refinement to avoid the lumps on metal bonded super fine diamond stones .
Worth hearing all of it but he discusses the above specifically starting just after seven minutes in .
I have considered using a high grit water stone on the Edge Pro as he suggests to add diamond to but wanted to fart around with the Hard Translucent Ark. first.

I got the Ark. today ; haven''t tried it yet . I worked today .

Just tap this link and it should take you to the video .

cliff stamp sharpening videos youtube - Search Videos

Watch videos instantly on Bing—enjoy direct playback, discover related clips, and dive into trending content all in one place.
www.bing.com www.bing.com
 
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I have found the Jende diamond emulsions easy to work with, although I have mostly used them with Jende's "Nanocloth" strops. The emulsion is pricey but it works very fast and leaves a bright gleam. The strops are pretty stiff. I am finding they don't need re-charging as often as some of the lower-rent pastes I've used, and there is no residue or waxy carrier to get in the way. I may try some on balsa, MDF, or maybe some flat purpleheart or other very hard wood. I like the hard surface.

Speaking of hard surfaces to strop on, I think lapping film on flat glass or metal does a very fine job of polishing and de-burring without licking the apex. I am getting very good results with silicon carbide and even aluminum oxide films on very hard steels, as long as I don't try to exceed what the particular film can do. It can maintain the edge of softer steels for quite a while, and can de-burr and lightly polish (or maybe just shine up) much harder steels. It's really easy to use, and even the 3M diamond films are probably a little cheaper than sprays or emulsions.

Two or three strokes per side with either of these (Jende diamonds on Nanocloth or good lapping film on glass) and I am done. They leave a clean apex over bright bevels.
 
I have used Scott Gunn's Gunny Juice which was sold at Grtomatic but Scott has gotten sick and stopped selling it for now,I know his emulsions were by far better then anything else out there because the diamonds were deonized and the same with the fuild that it came in and some special was done to suspend the diamonds as we,he got the his stuff from a medial supplier overseas that sold their stuff to companys that made knees and whatever else that needed to be polished.

I know there's a phenomenon that happens with paritcle's that are 3 micron and smaller where the particles want to attract to each other and when the diamonds and fluid is deionized it stops that from happening.
I know it wasn't just Scott that said that but also George O'Obrien that sells TSProf stuff who is a scientist also told me about the phenomenon and said it's real but I forget what it's called.

I just know with Gunny Juice that it cut's way faster for me then what Ken Schwartz's every did and many other brands.
 
I use both Gunny Juice and Stroppy Stuff and honestly can't tell much difference. They both work well. Stroppy Stuff is a good bit cheaper than GJ and is currently available.
 
I use mechanical sharpening and stropping methods primarily. It seems some techniques or products do not cross platforms with the same results. As in hand stropping does not equate to powered stropping. No data to support that other than reading forums…
That would be fun to attempt to compare.
 
lapping film on flat glass or metal
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I've been mixing several grits on film like that in with my progression of metal bonded diamond plates that fit the Edge Pro (all of them on the Edge Pro) .
And more recently with my Diamond Matrix Gritomatic and Matrix Jende "stones" as I have been able to afford them (I'm all stocked up now , finally) .
I don't like just going edge trailing ; I want to be able to go edge leading when I want to for deburing etc. and the side edges of the film tends to snag and it is possible to cut into the main face of the film if I don't use the stone thickness compensator perfectly .

and so the Hard Ark with diamond dust on it .
 
Tensaw said:
I use both Gunny Juice and Stroppy Stuff and honestly can't tell much difference. They both work well. Stroppy Stuff is a good bit cheaper than GJ and is currently available.
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I haven't tried the Stroppy Stuff yet but I plan to some day,I never read nothing about it but I can see it's sold at alot of different places like Gritomatic and with so many other dealers it must be good.

With Gunny Juice that's made by Scott Gun and he has had problems which cuased him to stop selling it for now and because of the deal he has with the maker of the emulsion he may not be able to start back up either.
Gunny juice is a formula from a medical supplier that supply's emulsions for polishing knee joints and other stuff like that and Scot amount of diamond was tinkered with to suite knives and the diamonds and fluid are deionized to stop the diamonds from being attractted to each other,I for the what the phenomenon is called and it is a real thing,I think the phenomenon starts at 1 or 3 micron and lower is where any 2 or 3 particles want to attract to each other.
 
Not sure about the rules for posting links, but if the mods allow, here's a recent video from Outdoors55 discussing (and showing hi res photos) of the impact of stropping using diamond emulsions on blade apexes compared to sharpening using the highest grit commercially available stone alone without stropping.


What I got from his video: stropping using diamond emulsion is effective at both removing the burr and refining the scratch pattern at the blade apex, and is more effective than using the highest grit stone currently available and not stropping.

NOTE: He's doing these experiments manually stropping on a leather strop. He notes that there is some give in the leather which is contributing to the process of refining the edge apex. I have no idea if the manual process would be different from a motorized process. That isn't something that he specifically tested in this video.

I don't believe he tested emulsion vs. spray. From what I understand about the process, I don't believe the form that the diamond comes in would matter. My understanding is that the form that the diamond comes in is just the carrier for the stuff that's doing the work (the diamond dust). What does seem to matter is the quality of the diamond supplier. Meaning, there is the potential for a supplier to sell something as being (say) a 1 micron diamond product that is contaminated with enough larger diamond particles to no longer be functional as a 1 micron diamond product.

Outdoos55 has previously noted that in his experience, when he has prepared his leather strops with diamond, he says they last a very long time. I believe I saw a video where he said that even after a year of very regular use, the diamond embedded strop was still working well.

BTW: I don't have any experience with pastes vs sprays. I've solely used diamond sprays from Cliff Curry. I use a Work Sharp KOMk2. My usual stropping process is to use a felt belt with a 3 micron diamond spray for knives needing a toothy edge. For getting an ever smoother finish, I'll add a step using a leather belt and a 1 micron diamond spray. I re-spray the belts every ~10-15 knives or so because that's what Cliff recommends. That process works well for me. YMMV.

Also: I'm a relative noob (just started the sharpening business in Oct 25), and I am still figuring things out, so take this for what it is.

Bruce
 
Outdoor Guy, I enjoy watching his videos although not the most “scientific” approach he often presents a good case… As we’re discussing particles, we would be remiss unless we discussed monocrystalline vs. polycrystalline. One cuts, one polishes, do they make a difference to you?
 
I'm pretty sure that Stroppy Stuff is monocrystalline and Gunny Juice is polycrystalline, whatever that means. As I mentioned earlier, they both work great for me and I can't really tell any difference. I should mention that I don't really go for high polished edges. I routinely sharpen with resin bonded diamond stones and stop at 400 grit and then strop with 6 micron, 4 micron, and clean leather. The edge is pretty shiny when done and gets more so as I do maintenance stropping (4 micron, clean leather).
 
I use fine diamonds on my strops for straight razors. Initially I tried the squirt syringe and found it hard to distribute evenly and not very effective. Then I tried Ted Pella diamond spray. The spray from Ted Pella was far easier to use and produced a crisper edge.

fwiw - to sharpen a straight razor, I use a fine India stone followed by Arkansas stones, soft, hard, and finishing on a translucent Ark with mineral oil. Then go to the strop with Ted Pella 0.25 micron spray on a horse hide and flax strop.
 
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