Did a little prying today with my zt 0562cf and the lock failed.

[hardheart]

How well knives actually cut is irrelevant?

When they don't ever cut anything, sure. A knife that can't cut very well and can't pry very well, yet it's still good for something. Keeping those display cases looking 'sharp' and on the ground.

 

[Krissig12]

So with ZT, I'm getting a knife that doesn't cut as well but also a knife that will fail if I find myself needing to use it for something other than cutting.

Why would you buy a knife to use for anything else besides cutting? Does ZT advertise them as prybars? Or shovels? Or nail-pullers?

Nope. More like the hype surrounding "ultra strong" overbuilt framelocks convinced you they were invincible


Although I do agree with the first part of your statement. That they don't cut very well....

Don't kill me Scurvy

 

[jeffmizrahi]

So with ZT, I'm getting a knife that doesn't cut as well but also a knife that will fail if I find myself needing to use it for something other than cutting. I thought I would have to give up sturdiness for cutting performance and vice versa, but I guess with ZT I don't have either?

That's what I'm coming up with as my conclusion. At least for the 0562, I may have to try out the 0630.. I bought the 0562 over the 0620 because of the drop point blade as I'm not too fond of tanto... now that they have the Emerson colab with bowie style blade and hearing that it may be a true heavy duty knife, I'll have to give it a closer look!

More like the hype surrounding "ultra strong" overbuilt framelocks convinced you they were invincible

sure did convince me!

 

[Krissig12]

When they don't ever cut anything, sure. A knife that can't cut very well and can't pry very well, yet it's still good for something. Keeping those display cases looking 'sharp' and on the ground.

Is this baseless accusation still aimed at me? I own maybe 10 folders, and all of them cut quite well.....

 

[RX-79G]

Were talking about ZTs. And while they may be a little more stout than SAKs, they're all still knives. And as knives, their primary use is in CUTTING. How well they actually end up doing that is irrelevant. It doesn't change the intended use (a use that is made clear by the manufacturer as well).

"Cutting" is a term that belies the actual forces a hand held knife experiences when you carve, chop, drill and slice. The loads are rarely without side loads and shocks as force is applied and removed at a variety of angles.

A knife is not a prybar, but it sees forces that are very similar. The only reason to have different primary bevels and blade thicknesses is to deal with all the forces that aren't purely cutting. Otherwise, all knives would be the thickness of razor blades.


General use knives aren't stamping dies, straight razors or fillet knives. They are tools of broad application, and the only fair assumption to make about a short knife with a thick blade is that it is designed to handle more shock and torque then a thinner bladed knife.


I also think that the mantra about folders being broken knives with a splint ignores just how strong something like a pin can be. Samurai sword blades are into their handles just by friction and a soft bamboo peg - but everyone knows better than to point out what a terrible idea that is.



The OP's knife likely failed due to the way he was holding it, or due to the loose lockbar insert. And if the knife just isn't up for a little prying, then the mechanism design is not up to the standard of the stout blade it is holding.

 

[asdf12345]

Why would you buy a knife to use for anything else besides cutting? Does ZT advertise them as prybars? Or shovels? Or nail-pullers?

Nope. More like the hype surrounding "ultra strong" overbuilt framelocks convicted you they were invincible

HARD-USE PREMIUM AND PROFESSIONAL KNIVES

Designed and manufactured to stand up to heavy-duty use, Zero Tolerance Knives are built of premium materials. The knives have earned a reputation among their devoted fans as being "built like a tank" or a "real beast" or even being—proudly—"overbuilt".

Nothing about cutting in there... plenty about "hard use" and "overbuilt".

You would think a knife you buy from them would be able to handle occasional prying tasks here and there. We don't buy knives with the intent of doing nothing but slicing paper thin, soft materials.

 

[mqqn]

HARD-USE PREMIUM AND PROFESSIONAL KNIVES

Designed and manufactured to stand up to heavy-duty use, Zero Tolerance Knives are built of premium materials. The knives have earned a reputation among their devoted fans as being "built like a tank" or a "real beast" or even being—proudly—"overbuilt".

Nothing about cutting in there... plenty about "hard use" and "overbuilt".

You would think a knife you buy from them would be able to handle occasional prying tasks here and there. We don't buy knives with the intent of doing nothing but slicing paper thin, soft materials.

Sounds like the OPs knife did handle it. He tightened loose screws on the lockbar insert and it is all good now.

Troll on, troll master.

best

mqqn

 

[mqqn]

When they don't ever cut anything, sure. A knife that can't cut very well and can't pry very well, yet it's still good for something. Keeping those display cases looking 'sharp' and on the ground.

Troll much?

best

mqqn

 

[asdf12345]

Sounds like the OPs knife did handle it. He tightened loose screws on the lockbar insert and it is all good now.

Troll on, troll master.

best

mqqn

I was responding to the other person's post.

best

asdf12345

 

[Krissig12]

"Cutting" is a term that belies the actual forces a hand held knife experiences when you carve, chop, drill and slice. The loads are rarely without side loads and shocks as force is applied and removed at a variety of angles.

A knife is not a prybar, but it sees forces that are very similar. The only reason to have different primary bevels and blade thicknesses is to deal with all the forces that aren't purely cutting. Otherwise, all knives would be the thickness of razor blades.


General use knives aren't stamping dies, straight razors or fillet knives. They are tools of broad application, and the only fair assumption to make about a short knife with a thick blade is that it is designed to handle more shock and torque then a thinner bladed knife.


I also think that the mantra about folders being broken knives with a splint ignores just how strong something like a pin can be. Samurai sword blades are into their handles just by friction and a soft bamboo peg - but everyone knows better than to point out what a terrible idea that is.



The OP's knife likely failed due to the way he was holding it, or due to the loose lockbar insert. And if the knife just isn't up for a little prying, then the mechanism design is not up to the standard of the stout blade it is holding.

General use does not include prying. Side loads while cutting are a whole lot less than when actively trying to pry with the folder.

And like it's been pointed out before, this type of lock is about the worse you could use for this type of extreme side load becuase of how it's designed. When the blade flexes between the handles, it screws with the contact between the tang and the lock face, putting it at greater risk of failure. If you absolutely MUST pry with a knife, get something like a cold steel tri ad.

 

[mqqn]

I was responding to the other person's post.

best

asdf12345

You don't have to be addressing me to be identified as a troll.

best

mqqn

 

[Krissig12]

HARD-USE PREMIUM AND PROFESSIONAL KNIVES

Designed and manufactured to stand up to heavy-duty use, Zero Tolerance Knives are built of premium materials. The knives have earned a reputation among their devoted fans as being "built like a tank" or a "real beast" or even being—proudly—"overbuilt".

Nothing about cutting in there... plenty about "hard use" and "overbuilt".

You would think a knife you buy from them would be able to handle occasional prying tasks here and there. We don't buy knives with the intent of doing nothing but slicing paper thin, soft materials.

"Knives" is enough for me, thank you. Unless you have a differnent definition of the term "knife"

I also see a lot of vague references to strength but no mention of prying specifically.....sooooooo.....

 

[asdf12345]

You don't have to be addressing me to be identified as a troll.

best

mqqn

Not sure how it was trolling - I was responding to the other person's post about how ZT markets their knives and I pulled up a quote from the company's website to make a point that they are actually marketed as overbuilt items for hard use. I brought this up because Krissing did so in the first place, not because I was trying to be rude.

best

asdf12345

 

[RX-79G]

General use does not include prying. Side loads while cutting are a whole lot less than when actively trying to pry with the folder.

And like it's been pointed out before, this type of lock is about the worse you could use for this type of extreme side load becuase of how it's designed. When the blade flexes between the handles, it screws with the contact between the tang and the lock face, putting it at greater risk of failure. If you absolutely MUST pry with a knife, get something like a cold steel tri ad.

The OP said that the prying forces were not particularly high. I don't see how it could be that much higher than what happens when you rapidly carve a hardwood stick.

I don't have a ZT knife, and I'm not defending the OP's knife. I'm just saying that a "hard use folder" should be able to be trusted to do more than slice sandwiches and pose for pictures. If the insert has a tendency to loosen up under load, that's bad design.

 

[Popsickle]

Knives aren't for prying. Next time use a pry bar.

That said, I bet ZT would fix it if you sent it in.

this +100000000000000000

 

[hardheart]

Is this baseless accusation still aimed at me? I own maybe 10 folders, and all of them cut quite well.....

Nothing was ever aimed at you. Your comment on the relevance of knife purpose was suitable for quoting, but I know nothing of what knives you own, and don't have a reason to. I was commenting on one particular trend in purchasing, the 'overbuilt' knife that doesn't work quite as well as a knife, which often is not used as a knife.

Troll much?

best

mqqn

Fanboy much?

 

[Krissig12]

The OP said that the prying forces were not particularly high. I don't see how it could be that much higher than what happens when you rapidly carve a hardwood stick.

I don't have a ZT knife, and I'm not defending the OP's knife. I'm just saying that a "hard use folder" should be able to be trusted to do more than slice sandwiches and pose for pictures. If the insert has a tendency to loosen up under load, that's bad design.

I can agree with that.

But it doesn't change the fact that OP shouldn't have pried with his knife in the first place. Even if the knife was physically able to take it when built properly, it doesn't make it a prybar.

Just like how I could probably do the same pry job with my Iphone, but i would never expect my Iphone to do that.

Somehow it's different for knives, and people have now assigned them a million different jobs besides just cutting. This idea of knives as impromptu prybars has been imprinted in people's minds by the survival/tactical trend of recent years, and now prying is just another ability knives are supposed to inherently possess and be judged on.

 

[A.L.]

Im not surprised it was ZT that failed. I could unlock my strider collab zt with pressure of my hand, and I have heard the same story many times. But hey, Im just hater and abuser of knives!

 

[Krissig12]

Im not surprised it was ZT that failed. I could unlock my strider collab zt with pressure of my hand, and I have heard the same story many times. But hey, Im just hater and abuser of knives!

Ain't that how it's done?

 

[AntDog]

Crowbars are cheap. Don't pry anything with a knife. If your knife locks up and feels solid, no you didn't damage it.

Lesson learned?