Did you think we were all just blowing smoke? Banning the ownership of ivory

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in the US, objects are presumed guilty until proven innocent...
 
New issue of sporting classics magazine has a very good article on poaching ivory. The demand for ivory is inAsian countries. Illegal makes no difference. Kenya leads the trade and corruption in the agencies.
Banning and confiscating my legally harvested elephant tusks will not save one elephant today.
Legal, regulated sport hunting can still go a long way in saving the elephant.
 
In the Big picture the way I see it, the number 1 problem is Africa itself. With the population increasing and governments out of control, there will be no more space left for the native animals of the African continent.
Tom Millikan cautions:
"Most poaching occurs in the Democratic Republic of Congo, where civil unrest has displaced refugees into protected wildlife areas, leading starving people to hunt elephants for food."
 
Problem is Africa itself. Most corrupt is Kenya. On the ground elephants are shot with poison arrows. Tusks are cut out and rest is left to rot. Some are shot from helicopters to finance armies. For food, small game is much easier to kill.
Legally killed elephants in sport hunting almost all the meat goes to the local village.
Poached elephants rot. Only the ivory is taken.
 
China actually did crush a batch of ivory a week or so ago. Gotta put on a dog and pony show for the Western Imperialists, i guess.
 
jdm61 said:
China actually did crush a batch of ivory a week or so ago. Gotta put on a dog and pony show for the Western Imperialists, i guess.
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Thanks, I am reading 6 tons of Chinese ivory crushed to dust. I frankly can't believe it. Well if the West will join in this ban there is hope for the elephant.

Gary
 
Here ya go, straight from the jackass' - er, uh, horse's - mouth . . .

“Under the leadership of Governor Cuomo, New York has taken a stand against a dangerous and cruel industry by strengthening criminal and civil penalties for ivory buyers and sellers whose actions are endangering elephant populations worldwide,” said New York State Department of Environmental Conservation Commissioner Joe Martens of New York’s 2014 law banning the sale of both elephant and mammoth ivory. “New York is proud to host today’s ivory crush—a clear reminder that we will not allow the illegal ivory trade to continue in the Empire State. I urge other states and nations to follow New York’s lead and join us in working to protect these endangered species for generations to come.”

Genius! Maybe it is not too late to save the endangered Mammoths after all.

Anyway, I think this is an excellent strategy. Punishing consumers to "curb demand" certainly helped us win the War on Drugs. :thumbup:
 
GaryFlorida said:
Thanks, I am reading 6 tons of Chinese ivory crushed to dust. I frankly can't believe it. Well if the West will join in this ban there is hope for the elephant.

Gary
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Hi Gary, I think you may not have been paying attention. The ETIS reports show that in 98 countries studied the US is at the bottom in terms of illicit ivory trafficking and the US is in the number one spot in the fight against trafficking of illicit ivory. From the years 2008 to 2013 the amount of illegal ivory coming into the country fell below the lowest category (below 2000kg), we are not even mentioned as a destination in the latest report. I am afraid you have been getting some bad information.

Dan Ashe has been proven time and time again to be a poor resource for accurate information regarding the elephant ivory issue.
 
Mark Knapp said:
Hi Gary, I think you may not have been paying attention. The ETIS reports show that in 98 countries studied the US is at the bottom in terms of illicit ivory trafficking and the US is in the number one spot in the fight against trafficking of illicit ivory. From the years 2008 to 2013 the amount of illegal ivory coming into the country fell below the lowest category (below 2000kg), we are not even mentioned as a destination in the latest report. I am afraid you have been getting some bad information.

Dan Ashe has been proven time and time again to be a poor resource for accurate information regarding the elephant ivory issue.
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I have no idea what you are saying. The more I read your comments, the more confused I get. Must be me.

Gary
 
What he is apparently saying his that we are not even part of the problem, yet for some reason, our pious pols seem to believe that we should lead the way in the most onerous way possible. We have skipped beyond the silly laws like they have in the UK where they say if you alter a legally possessed 100 year old piece of ivory in any way, you get fined 10,000 pounds. That apparently includes putting new bristles in a shaving brush. We avoid that problem by turning said brush with its old, rotten bristles not contraband.
GaryFlorida said:
I have no idea what you are saying. The more I read your comments, the more confused I get. Must be me.

Gary
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Ok thanks. Big Picture thinking here. We, the USA, can not tell everyone else the party is over without making sacrifices ourselves. Whether we are guilty or not. We are the power. We control or influence much of the World's decisions. We need to show total commitment. Sure there will be grey areas with ivory ban but there always is. When we sit at the table with the rest of the World, our stance must be squeaky clean.
Now the WWF can print this without the fear of finger pointing.
" America's role in the consumption and sale of ivory makes us complicit in the crisis and weakens our moral authority to lead internationally.
We must strengthen our laws to prevent this from happening and to encourage other countries to act with similar urgency."

Gary
 
GaryFlorida said:
I have no idea what you are saying. The more I read your comments, the more confused I get. Must be me.

Gary
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I try to get my information from reputable sources instead of from sources with obvious biases. Most people know what CITES is, it is a treaty that most civilized countries have signed to help solve problems with threatened and endangered species. Within CITES is an organization called ETIS, it stands for Elephant Trade Information System. There job is to track where elephants are being poached and where the ivory is going. Their studies show that that for the most part, the only ivory coming to the US is being brought bank by other wise well meaning tourists to other other countries unknowingly bringing back trinkets form Africa and Asian countries. There is no large wholesale smuggling problem in the US.

All of the information can be found hear if you are interested- http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/s...vory-for-knives-or-buy-sell-knives-with-ivory

Dan Ashe is the director of the USF&W Service, he's the one in charge of the recent crushing of ivory in NY. He is an appointee of our current president. Since his appointment (coinciding with the Clinton (yes, the Clinton you are thinking of) Initiative) the USF&W Services stance on illicit ivory made a complete about face. Their web site used to reflect what the ETIS reports say. Now the web site is just a propaganda piece for the election and re-election of a particular political party. It is not based in science or biology, it is being use to sway public opinion instead of manage wildlife.
 
GaryFlorida said:
Ok thanks. Big Picture thinking here. We, the USA, can not tell everyone else the party is over without making sacrifices ourselves. Whether we are guilty or not. We are the power. We control or influence much of the World's decisions. We need to show total commitment. Sure there will be grey areas with ivory ban but there always is. When we sit at the table with the rest of the World, our stance must be squeaky clean.
Now the WWF can print this without the fear of finger pointing.
" America's role in the consumption and sale of ivory makes us complicit in the crisis and weakens our moral authority to lead internationally.
We must strengthen our laws to prevent this from happening and to encourage other countries to act with similar urgency."

Gary
Click to expand...

Hi Gary, I say this with all the respect you are due. It is a problem if you (any of us) get your information from only one place. Get as much information as you can from as many places as you can so that you can make the best decisions you can. The WWF is obviously not un-biased. They are doing good work in some places, their hearts are in the right place but they are a business, they are making billions of dollars on the illicit ivory issue. Their administrators are making salaries higher than you and I will ever see (I'm guessing) If there is no controversy, their contributions plummet, they need these kinds of things to make their money. If you are truly interested in the truth and you want to be able to talk about this issue (from whatever side you are on) knowledgeably please read the studies in the link I posted.
 
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