Difference between Aldo's 1084

chad2 said:
corrosion resistance is from its chromium content. toughness is from good thermal cycling and good edge quenched blade and way more edge retention from carbon content and chromium content which refines the grain ;)
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Sorry, but it doesn't contain enough Chromium to even come close to corrosion resistant. 52100 will rust just as easily as 1084. The little bit of Chromium in 52100 is there for grain refinement.
 
Danbo said:
Sorry, but it doesn't contain enough Chromium to even come close to corrosion resistant. 52100 will rust just as easily as 1084. The little bit of Chromium in 52100 is there for grain refinement.
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yes i know that it is there for grain refinement but it will resist rust a little longer then 1084 not much but it makes a diff.
 
Ryanol said:
Can you HT it with a coffee can or a handful of firebricks, a propane torch and some canola oil?
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chad2 said:
yes ed caffery does :)
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Just to help clear up misunderstandings and stop the spread of things that are not fact,

Ed doesn't use a propane torch. He uses an oxy-acetylene torch sometimes and he's very good with it and very precise. Something that takes a LOT of practice and a lot of skill. Other times he will use his digitally controlled salt pot to HT these blades.

And he does not use canola oil for any steel. I have not watched Ed's video but have been to Ed's shop many times and know my statements to be fact.

I've seen similar comments more and more lately where Ed's name and methods get mentioned that convey the idea that Ed is producing blades with less than optimal equipment and methods. Nothing could be further from the truth. Ed is set up with all the right precise equipment to properly heat treat any steel he desires. He cares very much about the final result in his blades and tests them in every way possible including Rc tests, use tests and spectrographs.

I know that no one is attacking Ed or his methods but he does get brought into these discussions sometimes and is misquoted or misunderstood. Just wanted to clear that up. :)
 
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Wow, I don't check the thread for a couple of days and see what happens! Lol

I wanted to use Aldo's 1084 so I can learn HTing. Maybe that's the wrong thing to do, because I'd like to get the most out of the steel I can, but playing a little bit sounds fun too. I've also read that his 1084 is easy to work too, which will be a welcome change from the A2 I am using now.
 
medicevans said:
I wanted to use Aldo's 1084 so I can learn HTing. Maybe that's the wrong thing to do, because I'd like to get the most out of the steel I can...
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I don't think that's wrong at all. The whole point is that you can make the most (or very close to it) of 1084 with very basic, simple equipment.
 
Rick Marchand said:
Not cool. I'm getting tired of this, too.
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wow! i am really sorry if i have affended anyone! what i meant is that ed uses a torch i was not paying attention to the propane portion of that. 52100 is alot more finiky than 1084 yes but with experience it can be done. my first question was that why do people who make really good knives still use 1084?

rick i am sorry but you have twice told me that i was wrong on this forum racking my name across the coals when in turn you are really the one who has the wrong info. i am get tired of you calling me out making me look like i am giving out bad info when i dont see your name all over the internet or on a big knife company.

yes i posted something wrong on here and ed caffery i am sorry for that but rick what are you tired of? telling me that i am wrong when you have not done the research yourself!
 
Chad,
Please don't accuse me of dragging your name through coals. I pointed out that your information about the Curie Point was wrong; that I didn't share your thoughts on surface bubbles suggesting grain growth; and the higher 5160 HT'g temps. Other than the Curie mistake, I don't remember stating you were "wrong" anywhere. Infact, I remember you thanking me for NOT telling you that you were "wrong".(please correct me if I did) I do think you have been misinformed about a few things but the same could be said(and has been) about me.

What I am growing "tired of" is you (perhaps unknowingly)pitting makers against eachother. You have repeatedly brought Ed Caffrey's name into this quest to prove you aren't an armchair metallurgist. It isn't fair to Ed at all. Makers will defend their methods and it ends up looking like Ed himself is arguing, which is not the case. He makes no claims against any maker on the public boards and lets his work speak for his bladesmithing skill. When you challenge other folks and tell them "not to speak about things they know nothing about" using Ed's personal conversation as ammo on his behalf..... it gets dangerous. Misquotes are a common problem in the knifemaking community. Carelessly "confirming" that Ed uses "a coffee can or a handful of firebricks, a propane torch and some canola oil" might not be a big deal to you... but to Ed Caffrey, it is his reputation. Someone could come across that in search and believe it to be true... same with the Curie Point, which is why I pushed the issue.

If you feel you have a grasp on metallurgy, share your thoughts, processes and findings but don't get bent out of shape when someone disagrees with you. Just chug along, doing what you do, until an opportunity comes along to better yourself. I am learning all the time and sometimes what I thought I was a better way, gets shattered with newfound knowledge.... it's awesome!!!

I can't speak for the others but I am on these boards to learn, share, network and make friends...... I will call BS when I see it but raking folk's names through the coals doesn't fit in well with my objective. I am sorry if you see it as that.

Rick
 
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well there it goes! now i look like the A$$ HOLE becase yes i was, and you know what you are right rick yet again i just need to be less sensitive to the forum conversation.

i guess no one likes to hear that they are wrong but it happens and i need to learn to deal with it :foot:

as for Ed caffery i have and am apologizing to him also man do i need to pay attention to the things i post.

maybe 5160 or 52100 should not be talked about on my part.

i apologize guys!:(

now hopefully we have not derailed this thread to much and we can get back on to topic.
 
chad2 said:
wow! i am really sorry if i have affended anyone! what i meant is that ed uses a torch i was not paying attention to the propane portion of that. 52100 is alot more finiky than 1084 yes but with experience it can be done. my first question was that why do people who make really good knives still use 1084?

rick i am sorry but you have twice told me that i was wrong on this forum racking my name across the coals when in turn you are really the one who has the wrong info. i am get tired of you calling me out making me look like i am giving out bad info when i dont see your name all over the internet or on a big knife company.

yes i posted something wrong on here and ed caffery i am sorry for that but rick what are you tired of? telling me that i am wrong when you have not done the research yourself!
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Chad, I must say I really was amused by your visitor messages to me where among other things you stated you wanted to prove that you were not just a "keyboard metallurgist" You have been a rather ambitious poster here since you showed up in September claiming all sorts of backyard amateur metallurgy was performed at Ranger Knives by your friend Justine Gingerich. It is unfortunate that you decided to use an email to Ed to further your quest. Dude get over yourself. I am not sure how much formal testing Rick has done, but I know he has done a lot because we have argued about certain things and he has backed up his arguments with testing, not necessarily formal met. lab testing but practical application testing. I have studied enough metallurgy that I was able (despite not having any engineering degrees) to get a job as a metallurgical assistant engineer at an Aerospace superalloy plant testing the metal that went into jet engines and the space shuttle main engine nozzles, and helping develop and get FAA approval for a new melting procedure for rotor grade triple melt Udimet 718. until I got laid off in January I was able to test things and do my own micros on my lunch breaks, sadly I no longer have access to that lab. I am still the chapter president of the Mohawk Valley chapter of the ASM International (formerly known as the American Society of Metallurgists, )

-Page
 
sunshadow said:
... I am not sure how much formal testing Rick has done... not necessarily formal met. lab testing...
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Alas, I mistakenly double parked my laboratory rig and it was towed off, a few years ago. I am reduced to CAT data (Caveman Approved Testing) scribbled on the back of tear-soaked TTT charts.
 
james terrio said:
I don't think that's wrong at all. The whole point is that you can make the most (or very close to it) of 1084 with very basic, simple equipment.
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I assume that the home HT and so forth for 1084 has been discussed ad nauseum on this forum and all over the Internet. Maybe I will order some 1084 when my other stuff is done and play/learn about HT.

Ps, sorry for the multiple replies for quotes. I'm using tapatalk and I can't figure out how to do multiquotes.
 
I think(and have been told by people with bigger brains than me) that it is because 1084 can be both a great beginner steel AND processed by the more experienced maker to be an exceptional performing knife. Some simple steels are limited by their composition, 1084 has more potential, if you have the means to bring it out.
 
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medicevans said:
Let's discuss this. Why do people who make really good knives use 1084 instead of something else more "high tech?"
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I like Aldo's 1084 because it forges beautifully, the Vanadium in it keeps the grain nice and tight, it etches to a beautiful grey/black in FeCl, which in combination with 15n20 makes a beautiful damascus, and it forgewelds cleanly and easily.

-Page
 
I think that people tend to make the relative ease of HT the focus point. Seems like sometimes because it's referred to as a "beginner's steel" the fact that it makes a great blade gets overlooked. "If it's a beginner's steel, it can't possible make a good blade right?" :)

I think it makes a great all around blade for big and small knives. We could argue all day about which steel is best for which knife type. No one single steel will be perfect for every knife in every application. But 1084 is as good of an all around trade-off as any other steel. It's durable, tough, forging friendly, holds a good edge and yet resharpen's fairly quickly.

The fact that it tends to be one of the simplest to heat treat should be looked on as an added benefit not the main focus, much less as the only thing 1084 has to offer.
 
Rick Marchand said:
Hey... Mete slapped my pee-pee for using "tight" as a descriptor for vanadium "pinning" the grain boundries... lol.
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I figured that the concept of pinning grain boundaries might be lost on some of the less experienced whereas describing it in Penthouse Forum vernacular would get the message across, my bad. The fine vanadium carbide precipitates at the grain boundaries and creates nucleation energy sites that foster grain division

better?

-Page
 
sunshadow said:
I figured that the concept of pinning grain boundaries might be lost on some of the less experienced whereas describing it in Penthouse Forum vernacular would get the message across, my bad.
-Page
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You were right. Can't go wrong with Penthouse Forum vernacular. :D
 
Errrrr, Whut:confused:... you lost me at Penthouse, due to the temporary blood displacement I experienced.:D
 
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